German court rules SUV owners can be fined more for breaking traffic laws
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Re: German court rules SUV owners can be fined more for breaking traffic laws
#2I should point out the obvious:
1) Yes, the increase of fees is legal (see note 2) in Germany
2) Yes, the driver could appeal and reinstate the baseline 200-euro penalty
3) No, it doesn't (automatically) make a precedent (but may be considered by other judges on future cases). This is not the US where precedents are a widely-held convention.
Re: German court rules SUV owners can be fined more for breaking traffic laws
#3I should point out the obvious: 1) Yes, the increase of fees is legal (see note 2) in Germany 2) Yes, the driver could appeal and reinstate the baseline 200-euro penalty 3) No, it doesn't (automatically) make a precedent (but may be considered by other judges on future cases). This is not the US where precedents are a widely-held convention.
Thanks for pointing it out, the last word is not yet spoken in this proceeding.
" SUV drivers face a higher fine for red light violations than drivers of other vehicle types. This is the opinion of the Frankfurt am Main District Court (Amtsgericht) (ruling dated June 3, 2022, Case No. 974 OWi 533 Js-OWi 18474/22). The decision is not yet final.
A woman drove her BMW SUV through a red light at an intersection in Frankfurt. The red phase of the traffic light lasted at that time already longer than 1.1 seconds. An SUV (long: sport utility vehicle) has increased ground clearance compared to normal vehicles.
Due to the special vehicle procurement, the district court now felt compelled in this specific case to increase the standard fine provided for in the fine catalog for this violation. Normally, the catalog provides for a fine of 200 euros - but the woman must now pay 350 euros. The boxy design and the raised front end would increase the risk of injury to other road users, the court said.
Due to the greater abstract danger, the committed red light violation was more serious than in a normal case, the district court said. It based this decision on the objective of Section 37 of the German Road Traffic Regulations (StVO), according to which variable light signals - i.e. traffic lights - are intended to protect road users from collisions in the intersection area - and a collision with a larger car such as an SUV poses a higher potential for injury."
Translated from: https://www.lto.de/recht/nachrichten/n/ag-frankfurt-am-main-...
Re: German court rules SUV owners can be fined more for breaking traffic laws
#4I should point out the obvious: 1) Yes, the increase of fees is legal (see note 2) in Germany 2) Yes, the driver could appeal and reinstate the baseline 200-euro penalty 3) No, it doesn't (automatically) make a precedent (but may be considered by other judges on future cases). This is not the US where precedents are a widely-held convention.
Thanks for pointing it out, the last word is not yet spoken in this proceeding. " SUV drivers face a higher fine for red light violations than drivers of other vehicle types. This is the opinion of the Frankfurt am Main District Court (Amtsgericht) (ruling dated June 3, 2022, Case No. 974 OWi 533 Js-OWi 18474/22). The decision is not yet final. A woman drove her BMW SUV through a red light at an intersection in Frank…
so if i drive a super light car thru a red light can i get a lesser fine than 200 Euros? :)
Re: German court rules SUV owners can be fined more for breaking traffic laws
#5SUVs and pickups are twice as likely to kill someone in a major crash.
It’s insane they are allowed on the road.
Re: German court rules SUV owners can be fined more for breaking traffic laws
#6Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for pointing it out, the last word is not yet spoken in this proceeding. " SUV drivers face a higher fine for red light violations than drivers of other vehicle types. This is the opinion of the Frankfurt am Main District Court (Amtsgericht) (ruling dated June 3, 2022, Case No. 974 OWi 533 Js-OWi 18474/22). The decision is not yet final. A woman drove her BMW SUV through a red light at an intersection in Frank…
so if i drive a super light car thru a red light can i get a lesser fine than 200 Euros? :)
Yes, if you can convince the judge (unlikely) or prove that the device wasn't working correctly (much more likely).
Re: German court rules SUV owners can be fined more for breaking traffic laws
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
so if i drive a super light car thru a red light can i get a lesser fine than 200 Euros? :)
Yes, if you can convince the judge (unlikely) or prove that the device wasn't working correctly (much more likely).
Provided that there's no accident etc. you may very well get no fine at all, if the traffic light or traffic camera is indeed broken.
Re: German court rules SUV owners can be fined more for breaking traffic laws
#8SUVs and pickups are twice as likely to kill someone in a major crash. It’s insane they are allowed on the road.
What is an SUV?
Here's an example of two vehicles that I imagine might be cross-shopped by a hypothetical consumer who is able to ignore styling and image and objectively compare SUVs and non-SUVs.
(Yes, these are probably more US-market models, but it's tough for me to envision someone who doesn't care about image rationally cross-shopping a BMW with anything)
A 2020 Nissan Pathfinder has 7.1 inches of ground clearance and curb weight of 4,475 lbs. In over 30 years, the model name "Pathfinder" has applied to totally different vehicles, but always with the connotation, as far as I know, of being an SUV.
A 2021 Kia Sedona, which is a minivan, has 6.7 inches of ground clearance. Curb weight 4,443 pounds. The Sedona nameplate has also been around through several redesigns, but as far as I know has always been a van.
So, the SUV in this comparison has 0.4 inches more ground clearance, which is about 10 mm. And it supposedly weighs 32 lbs more, in whatever configuration they were tested in. This is about 2 1/3 stone, or a little under 15 kg.
Maybe weight and ground clearance aren't material to why SUVs should be banned. But something essential to "SUVness" has to be identified to prevent working around a ban. I don't know what it might be.
I think there's a process that's been going on for several decades, where auto manufacturers are actively trying to blur the lines between SUVs and other cars. And it's a significant evolution, if you compare today's models with the 80s.
Re: German court rules SUV owners can be fined more for breaking traffic laws
#9SUVs and pickups are twice as likely to kill someone in a major crash. It’s insane they are allowed on the road.
What is an SUV? Here's an example of two vehicles that I imagine might be cross-shopped by a hypothetical consumer who is able to ignore styling and image and objectively compare SUVs and non-SUVs. (Yes, these are probably more US-market models, but it's tough for me to envision someone who doesn't care about image rationally cross-shopping a BMW with anything) A 2020 Nissan Pathfinder has 7.1 inches of ground cleara…
Yes, there are all kinds of too big cars standing in our cities.
Re: German court rules SUV owners can be fined more for breaking traffic laws
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is an SUV? Here's an example of two vehicles that I imagine might be cross-shopped by a hypothetical consumer who is able to ignore styling and image and objectively compare SUVs and non-SUVs. (Yes, these are probably more US-market models, but it's tough for me to envision someone who doesn't care about image rationally cross-shopping a BMW with anything) A 2020 Nissan Pathfinder has 7.1 inches of ground cleara…
Yes, there are all kinds of too big cars standing in our cities.
Do you think it's a problem if tradespeople drive full-size pickup trucks or vans?
I could be wrong, but in my city, I think the majority of people driving pickups are driving work trucks, or they are from outside the city.
What about ordinary people renting large vehicles for a specific job?
Are buses ok?
What about semi-trailers?