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Ask HN: Who is coordinating a plan to make small towns hipster?

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Ask HN: Who is coordinating a plan to make small towns hipster?

#1
Doesn't it seem fairly possible for a large company, or a DAO for that matter, to establish a foothold in a small town somewhere in a small state and create massive incentives for hipster coastals to move there?

Think of Marfa, TX, or Los Alamos, CA, or to take an older one, Yountville, CA.

It seems both potentially HUGELY profitable and politically meaningful to make it palatable for young coastal workers to congregate in a small town and revitalize it with urban tastes.

Things going for this strategy:

1. Work from anywhere policies not likely going anywhere.

2. Young families likely want more space, and many of these rural states have it in spades. What's lacking is schooling, housing and entertainment, and much of this could likely be developed.

3. Small, rural towns have cheap real estate because of lack of opportunity. AL and WV are dirt cheap compared to the coasts, but if you’re honest with yourself, you probably haven’t bought there because there’s nothing enticing about it. No jobs, nowhere great to eat, nothing really to do. The land itself could be gorgeous, magestic even -- there's very little difference between the landscape in Hudson Valley and the landscape in Appalachia. You just don't want to be the first or only coastal elite to settle there (neither do I, and I grew up in rural GA).

4. Creatives love to congregate. If you could seed the town with hipster chefs, maybe a graphic designer-focused coworking facility, etc, then you'd have a good start. I’m thinking of how Richard Branson had that mansion in the English countryside where musicians preferred to record because they could spread out. Or how Francis Mallman has his isolated island where young, ambitious chefs apprentice under him to learn hyper-local cooking. If you had that initial draw, you could entice more builders who create restaurants, coffee houses, galleries and music venues. Money follows hipsters. Folks from places like LA, SF, NYC would LOVE the idea of spreading out. My guess is they'd swarm the open houses if you show them modern pre-fabs on 1+ acres with total privacy and a Blue Bottle and 10/10 preschool down the street for under $1000/sf.

5. First movers would stand to profit the most here. But you'd need a lot of capital and sufficient influence to bring a lot of people with you. If you had those, you could literally buy a few hundred acres around a town and then start to parcel it out to folks as they arrive. Massive profit incentive. I’m oversimplifying just about everything here, but this does seem like a good fit for a DAO…

My personal read, as an LA resident, is that a lot of young families would LOVE for this to happen. Leaving politics aside, what keeps most people I know from moving to, say, Montana is "what kind of schools are there" and “won’t we get bored after a few months?”

People live in cities for other people, for the entertainment, the restaurants, the vibe. But a lot of that can be developed. And some small towns have it despite not being big. Austin in the 90s, for example.

And, again, leaving the politics aside, this seems like a win-win — small towns don’t want to be left behind, but there also don’t seem to be a lot of developers stepping in and trying to give them a shot at the modern economy.

I would love to know who is doing this in small town America. Not just rebuilding or developing a slightly-less-shitty strip mall, but doing it with a deliberate strategy of making the town the next “it” destination for young families in America.

Re: Ask HN: Who is coordinating a plan to make small towns hipster?

#3
All the existing residents of these towns would hate everything about this. Also, once you bring in things to do so people aren't "bored", and fill it with hipsters... you just have the city again. The small town vibe is lost. The lower prices are gone, because high income earners have moved in, and the locals are priced out of the town they grew up in.

This is a horrible idea.

If a company wants to buy an empty plot of land and try to make their own city, ok, let's see what that's like... but don't destroy good small towns by turning them into some weird hybrid.

Re: Ask HN: Who is coordinating a plan to make small towns hipster?

#4
post #2

Who would want to live near a bunch of hipsters? Sounds horrible.

LOL nearly everyone. The term has negative connotations but technically it refers to "a person who follows the latest trends and fashions."

Traditionalists, people with bad taste, or generally uncurious folks don't motivate large amounts of people to change behavior. But large groups of young people trying new things and inventing new experiences do.

SF, NYC, LA, even Miami real estate booms are all because of hipsters. Young creative people make the place interesting, then richer but more boring people crash the party and bid up prices. It gets too expensive for young creatives eventually so they leave, and then the cycle repeats.

Geography on its own isn't enough. NYC was a disaster in the 70s; only when the young people started moving back did it become desirable, hence valuable.

So you need hipsters. Without them, the place you live is just a boring bedroom community. Could be anywhere, likely not valuable.

Re: Ask HN: Who is coordinating a plan to make small towns hipster?

#5

All the existing residents of these towns would hate everything about this. Also, once you bring in things to do so people aren't "bored", and fill it with hipsters... you just have the city again. The small town vibe is lost. The lower prices are gone, because high income earners have moved in, and the locals are priced out of the town they grew up in. This is a horrible idea. If a company wants to buy an empty plot…

The "small town vibe" is what holds back the value. It's undesirable to modern young people to not have a vibrant creative atmosphere. Obviously this is a generalization but it's clearly true on average. That's bad for the town no matter which way you look at it -- top young talent leaves at first opportunity, so no companies invest because no ambitious talent pool, so no dollars flow through local economy, and it becomes a death spiral. Don't pretend like locals want this.

If the town has great real estate, someone should help it find its maximum value. Sure some locals will claim to dislike the change, sort of like those old SFers that complain about the good ol days of Haight Ashbury. But they did OK if they owned. And this is what capitalism is all about -- if it's empirically good, it gets bid up with higher prices.

To pretend like small towns have precious virtue on their own or want to shun value appreciation is naive.

Small town home owners should love to find out young people moved in and made their home worth millions. They can cash out and go hide somewhere forgotten if they really want. Either way, if they pretend they have some right to not have their land value improved, they misunderstand how capitalism in America works.

Re: Ask HN: Who is coordinating a plan to make small towns hipster?

#6
> What's lacking is schooling, housing and entertainment, and much of this could likely be developed.

Also missing: friends, family, and diversity.

As a non-white person in the US, most small towns are a non-starter for me because it's uncomfortable being the only non-white person in every room. I don't ascribe that to any malice on their part -- it's just an unfortunate reality. I think most people feel this way, regardless of their race.

> And, again, leaving the politics aside, this seems like a win-win

That's like saying "leaving safety aside" or "leaving authoritarianism aside"... you just can't. It might be the determining factor about whether a place is appealing.

We now have to contend with the fact that most of the inexpensive states will criminalize many aspects of family planning, the way they are criminalizing abortion. When my girlfriend gets pregnant, we will spend the pregnancy in a blue state for that reason (despite living in a red one now).

> small towns don’t want to be left behind

Why do you think this? It sounds like your definition of "left behind" is that they're not going to grow or be filled with young creatives. By that definition, a lot of small towns absolutely do want to be left behind.

Most of them seem to be filled with people who want their children to have more or less the same childhood that they had: similar vibe, quality of life, etc.

I can't speak for all small towns, but most small towns would probably not appreciate the developments you're describing. They might as well be started on a relatively uninhabited piece of land, like Serenbe and similar places were[1].

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenbe

Re: Ask HN: Who is coordinating a plan to make small towns hipster?

#7
post #2

Who would want to live near a bunch of hipsters? Sounds horrible.

What would you dislike about it? It's not like they're actively irritating to other people.

In fact, they're largely responsible for the great restaurants, coffee shops, music venues, and street art in cities that people value when they're looking for somewhere to live.

Re: Ask HN: Who is coordinating a plan to make small towns hipster?

#8
post #7
post #2

Who would want to live near a bunch of hipsters? Sounds horrible.

What would you dislike about it? It's not like they're actively irritating to other people. In fact, they're largely responsible for the great restaurants, coffee shops, music venues, and street art in cities that people value when they're looking for somewhere to live.

Only a very narrow segment of the population values those things when looking for somewhere to live. Expand your perspective.

Re: Ask HN: Who is coordinating a plan to make small towns hipster?

#9
post #4
post #2

Who would want to live near a bunch of hipsters? Sounds horrible.

LOL nearly everyone. The term has negative connotations but technically it refers to "a person who follows the latest trends and fashions." Traditionalists, people with bad taste, or generally uncurious folks don't motivate large amounts of people to change behavior. But large groups of young people trying new things and inventing new experiences do. SF, NYC, LA, even Miami real estate booms are all because of hipste…

>"a person who follows the latest trends and fashions."

In other words, a person who doesn't think for him/herself. We have plenty of those. They are welcome to stay where they are.

Re: Ask HN: Who is coordinating a plan to make small towns hipster?

#10
post #8
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you dislike about it? It's not like they're actively irritating to other people. In fact, they're largely responsible for the great restaurants, coffee shops, music venues, and street art in cities that people value when they're looking for somewhere to live.

Only a very narrow segment of the population values those things when looking for somewhere to live. Expand your perspective.

> Only a very narrow segment of the population values [great restaurants, coffee shops, music venues, and street art] when looking for somewhere to live.

Are you kidding? Why have people been urbanizing for the last few decades? Why do people value walkability? Why are small towns and rural communities losing population, even when people are able to work remotely? Why is all the most expensive real estate close to these things?

If you look at literally any research on the topic, the exact opposite is true. Only a small segment of people don't care about those factors[1]. Do you have any data to back up your assertion, or is it just your enlightened perspective that you're basing this on?

> Expand your perspective.

Expand your ability to make an argument other than implying that someone else is ignorant. That's a childish way to avoid actually supporting your argument. You have no idea where I grew up, where I live now, or what my perspective is.

People aren't automatically ignorant because they disagree with what your gut says or your own personal preferences.

1. https://cdn.nar.realtor/sites/default/files/documents/2020-t...

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