You can't argue with a zombie (1995)
jaronlanier.com
You can't argue with a zombie (1995)
1–10 of 32 posts
Re: You can't argue with a zombie (1995)
#2en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaron_Lanier
Re: You can't argue with a zombie (1995)
#3I suspect my own comments on this site will probably age just as goatily.
There was something that happened in the late 80s and 90s where difficult philosophy and just riffing on the logic of an idea got conflated. My 90's alternative high school english class taught by a cultural studies PhD assigned us BBS t-files and we got a lot of stuff like this. It was like philosophy, but without rigor or competence, and when you suggested it was just dissolving reason and meaning into gibberish, they would say "YES!" with a weird, manic triumphalism. Everyone was just talking past each other and reveling in the satisfaction of hearing their words echoed in someone elses nonsense. I probably spoke like that back then as well. It's hypnotic, it exploits the listeners basic agreeableness, elevates lunatics and demagogues, and emboldens the incoherent.
By the end of the article, you are left trying to untangle a set of interleaved similes and metaphors the writer has unhooked and completely decoupled from reason.
This is his conclusion:
> The qualia dial validates zagnets while still letting the universe exist independently. Zagnets frequently end up having to deny the existence of the objective universe in order to exist themselves. Sometimes, to get around this problem, zagnets propose that consciousness is a part of the natural world, just not the part that zombies are competent at observing. Taking this approach, zagnets can run but they can't hide. Eventually, some grandson of Dennett might be insulting Penrose-style zagnets with quantum measurement devices and Searle-style zagnets with group-mind detectors even though today we believe such devices to be impossible. The qualia dial gives both subjectivity and objectivity their due.
If you ever wonder how we got here, stuff like this was the prelude.
Re: You can't argue with a zombie (1995)
#4[Sarcasm] Hmm, weird. You see, my obviously unimpeachable internal subjective experience says that anyone who doesn't believe computers (or for that matter, meteor showers or CDs) could have internal subjective experience is, in fact, a zombie.
Re: You can't argue with a zombie (1995)
#5en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaron_Lanier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaron_Lanier Clickable link
Re: You can't argue with a zombie (1995)
#6[deleted]
Re: You can't argue with a zombie (1995)
#7The author desperately needs to read or cite Greg Egan's Permutation City and the "Dust Theory" contained therein. We went over all this 28 years ago. It's old hat now.
Re: You can't argue with a zombie (1995)
#8The author desperately needs to read or cite Greg Egan's Permutation City and the "Dust Theory" contained therein. We went over all this 28 years ago. It's old hat now.
> We went over all this 28 years ago.
The essay is from 1995. So... yeah, that's pretty on the nose actually.
Re: You can't argue with a zombie (1995)
#9The author desperately needs to read or cite Greg Egan's Permutation City and the "Dust Theory" contained therein. We went over all this 28 years ago. It's old hat now.
> We went over all this 28 years ago. The essay is from 1995. So... yeah, that's pretty on the nose actually.
That's funny. I looked at the essay for a pub date and completely missed the HN title. D'oh.
Re: You can't argue with a zombie (1995)
#10Playacting as philosophy—enjoyable read though.