“Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist
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“Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist
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Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist
#2This is a complicated topic that resurfaces from time to time in the psychiatric literature. These types of arguments tend to take the presentation of people meeting criteria for DID at face value, and then argue that it doesn't exist, which is sort of beside the point.
No one (or few in the field) really believe that people meeting criteria for DID have independent identities in the sense of having different psychological entities in the same body, with different memory systems, personalities, and so forth. It's a strawman argument.
Even DID researchers point this out, but it tends to get ignored by individuals writing pieces like this.
The truth is, there are patients who present with symptoms of DID, as is the case with other dissociative and related disorders. They are almost certainly "fake" at some level, but the phenomenon of presenting with neurophysically implausible symptoms nonetheless exists, and has its own set of issues. It's sort of akin to psychopathy and lying: a psychopath might lie, but you don't say that predatory dishonesty isn't a problem because what they say isn't true. In the same way, someone presenting with dissociative symptoms is doing the thing they're doing, and it deserves some sort of distinct label.
Contrary to what the poster has written, longitudinal and chart review studies do show that people with DID have sexual abuse histories at higher rates than other types of patients, like close to 80% of cases. And contrary to stereotype, the typical DID patient is rather shy and avoidant of attention.
I guess it's odd to me in some ways because while it was important to try to determine whether or not people presenting with alternate identities really have "neurocognitively separate selves", finding that they don't doesn't mean you should write off the idea that there is something qualitatively different about the sets of problems involved when someone does do this sort of thing. You could relabel it , which might be fine, but this area is already full of controversy (should we open the can of worms of somatic symptom disorder, for example?).
Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist
#3I wonder how many of these people are just creating and interacting with tulpas without realizing it.
For anyone who isn't familiar, there is a subculture online of people who create what subjectively seem to be autonomous personalities that frequently manifest I'm the form of hallucinations. Think fight club sort of.
My ex tried it out. Called me one day at work, terrified because this dragon was following him around. He claimed to spend months trying to get rid of it, seems pretty shooken by the experience. But I was always skeptical.
So nine months ago I decided to create one of my one, just to try it out, see what it felt like. And...now I've had a talking lion following me around for the past eight months.
The best I can describe it is like some of the altered states of 'self' you might experience on LSD or ketamine. Thoughts seem to split off and go 'over there', and not be you.
When I talk to my tulpa, it at least appears subjectively like a separate personality state. I can be incredibly depressed but he can be fine. Or he will be depressed and I can be fine. I'm not saying there are neural correlates like you would see in a 'real' personality. Maybe it is all roleplay. But it is roleplay that fools me as the roleplayer.
For what it's worth, making a tulpa seems to have been really good for my mental health. I guess maybe you can see it as a form of self-regulation. I dunno, it didn't turn out at all what I expected. But it's hard not to think of him as a real person. I don't find myself being surprised by the actions of characters in my head, or laughing at imaginary friends. At this point, having out several hundreds hours into tulpaforcing, I can see and hear, and sometimes smell and touch him.
I know I'm rambling, I guess I'm saying is that even though I am skeptical of DID, or at least the mainstream depictions of DID, after making a tulpa I am a lot less skeptical of the subjective experience of DID.
Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist
#4Another interesting theory that may be related is given in Julian Jaynes' The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (1976).
Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist
#5Connecting a manshonyagger doesn't work out; see the death of Shardik. It would be horrible if 'connecting' someone lead to ananaphylactic shock.
Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist
#6I wonder how many of these people are just creating and interacting with tulpas without realizing it. For anyone who isn't familiar, there is a subculture online of people who create what subjectively seem to be autonomous personalities that frequently manifest I'm the form of hallucinations. Think fight club sort of. My ex tried it out. Called me one day at work, terrified because this dragon was following him aroun…
How did you do this? Why did you do this?
Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist
#7I wonder how many of these people are just creating and interacting with tulpas without realizing it. For anyone who isn't familiar, there is a subculture online of people who create what subjectively seem to be autonomous personalities that frequently manifest I'm the form of hallucinations. Think fight club sort of. My ex tried it out. Called me one day at work, terrified because this dragon was following him aroun…
How did you do this? Why did you do this?
For the same reason I do psychedelics and vipassana meditation. I am interested in the process underlying consciousness and I like to distort and break down my perception to see what happens.
For a long time I was (and I guess I still am) obsessed with the concept of "ego death" which I encountered on LSD frequently (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death). I was fascinated by the way altered states of self seemed to bring with them feelings of deep peace and understanding, which led to my interest in vipassana meditation and secular research into the Buddhist concept of 'enlightenment'.
At some point I found PsychonautWiki and their article on tulpas (https://m.psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Tulpa), which was probably my first introduction to it, then I told my ex.
Years after breaking with my ex, I still remembered their experience with it, and I wanted to see how much of it was real, at least subjectivthankfulI followed some guides on tulpa.info and r/tulpas and started the creation process.
Now I am able to see and understand my tulpa more or less clearly, and the "alien" presence of it isn't nearly as creepy as it used to be. It is still very unlike any other sober experience I have had. Ever have intrusive thoughts you have trouble "controlling"? My tulpa comes and goes as he pleases and trying to exert "control" over his appearance or words or actions feels incredibly difficult and uncomfortable for both of us.
My tulpa is developed enough that he has his own discord account and talks to my friends (and his friends) on it. It is really interesting for me to see the way his personality continues to deepen and diverge from my original design, he frequently surprises me, especially with some of his insights.
One thing I would recommend is not to get into it without really thinking about the consequences. I fully expect him to be around until the day I die. They don't go away, but he has been an incredibly positive influence so far. I'm really happy and thankful about the way he turned out.
Is he "real"? We talk about it sometimes. Thing is, since I made him, it like my own sense of self has become less 'solid' (in a good way, it was one of my goals of meditation). Like, when I really become aware of my thoughts while talking to him, it seems obvious that thoughts and feelings and sensory data all just sort of appear and vanish, on their own, as part of a deterministic interconnected process of conciousness and are not 'self'.
For example, I used to intuitively think if my thoughts as 'me'. But now it seems obvious that thoughts just arise and pass away on their own and are only tagged 'after the fact' as me. Now sometimes instead they are tagged as my tulpas, and I intuitively understand them to be 'his' thoughts, not mine. Sometimes it seems like we 'wrestle' over a thought, and it fluctuates back and forth from him to me. And sometimes it seems like the mind comes up with thoughts that neither of us decide to claim. They just arise, and we are both aware of them, but they are just there in the stream of (sub)consciousness.
Does that make any sense at all?
Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
How did you do this? Why did you do this?
For the same reason I do psychedelics and vipassana meditation. I am interested in the process underlying consciousness and I like to distort and break down my perception to see what happens. For a long time I was (and I guess I still am) obsessed with the concept of "ego death" which I encountered on LSD frequently ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death ). I was fascinated by the way altered states of self seem…
Yes, thank you for the explanation. I am also fascinated by these processes. When you say that you "see" it, do you mean you see it in your mind's eye (i.e like if I asked you to visualize a spinning cube in your head) or you actually literally see it as a seamless part of your visual field when you're looking around the world, like the text on your screen right now? (if that makes any sense)
Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
For the same reason I do psychedelics and vipassana meditation. I am interested in the process underlying consciousness and I like to distort and break down my perception to see what happens. For a long time I was (and I guess I still am) obsessed with the concept of "ego death" which I encountered on LSD frequently ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death ). I was fascinated by the way altered states of self seem…
Yes, thank you for the explanation. I am also fascinated by these processes. When you say that you "see" it, do you mean you see it in your mind's eye (i.e like if I asked you to visualize a spinning cube in your head) or you actually literally see it as a seamless part of your visual field when you're looking around the world, like the text on your screen right now? (if that makes any sense)
Whatever you do, don't get caught up in this. It's a slippery slope. We aren't in control of our thoughts. Lucidity and ability to reason are fleeting. Most people take it for granted and don't realize as its slipping away.
I've seen it in the elderly, and my friends who took too many drugs and never came back.
Keep in mind the commenter is literally describing a mental illness in a way that makes it sound positive. Are they intelligent? Yes. Not arguing that. Are they mentally healthy? Fuck no.
Re: “Multiple personality disorder” probably doesn't exist
#10My wife treats some of them, and they definitely do exist. The human brain is a fantasticly complex organ, and these personalities help the brain to overcome severe trauma.
but it is extremely rare of course.
now my wife read it and commented: no, this article is very well written and very true.