The Hypocrisy of Occupy Wall Street
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The Hypocrisy of Occupy Wall Street
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Re: The Hypocrisy of Occupy Wall Street
#2Last night I talked with a friend about all this. My friend pointed out many of the things this author did: people are protesting against the machine using things the machine created; they don't provide a solution but simply a redundant description of the problem. I know and respect a number of people who are protesting in my city, and they are sincere in their efforts to make change. The trouble is, I don't think they will succeed this way. A real solution would be to get rid of these things: forsake the extra computers, the wireless contract, food produced and distributed by soulless corporations, the fancy cars; join or start a local food cooperative, live in a housing co-op, support credit unions, and aggressively buy local - even if it means severe inconvenience. Need to organize a trip down to city hall to protest? If you use your phone, you've already lost.
That's how the "machine" got to where it is: it provided convenience, delivered on the backs of screwed workers, in the waves of polluted ecosystems, in the gasps of strangled local economies, and with trodden and corrupt opportunism at every step. You want something? Just ask. But somebody will be paying.
I'm deliberately not taking a side here: if you think our current situation is a problem, then the solution is to let go of convenience and standard of living - at least until a viable alternative crops up (and I think it has in the form of cooperation). If you don't think there is a problem, please go on your merry way. It's your right.
Re: The Hypocrisy of Occupy Wall Street
#3Unfortunately, this article (and regrettably most of the 99%ers) are missing the point entirely. This isn't about "99% of us don't have enough". It is about "The rich get richer simply because they are rich."
The article states We created the beast that we protest against. We also possess the power to defeat it... We have the means for change, we work hard for it, and WE are the 99%. The problem is we've been working hard for decades and the middle class is getting smaller, and we aren't moving up. Anyone can give an anecdote to the contrary, but this still isn't about "making it", it is about the "haves" getting more, not by virtue of their talent, but rather by keeping others down with their immense resources.
Re: The Hypocrisy of Occupy Wall Street
#4Last night I talked with a friend about all this. My friend pointed out many of the things this author did: people are protesting against the machine using things the machine created; they don't provide a solution but simply a redundant description of the problem. I know and respect a number of people who are protesting in my city, and they are sincere in their efforts to make change. The trouble is, I don't think th…
I agree almost completely. I organise a food co-op out of my living room, have lived in multiple cooperative houses, and am going before the city council tonight to get permission to build an eco-village on land that I cooperatively purchased together with friends for this purpose.
However, I think there is validity in being angry and protesting about the way things are. If only to publicly show how many people feel this way and to get this issue into people's awareness. Just because we have some clear ideas about how one could address the problems they are raising doesn't mean the publicity from raising them, or getting together to gather more ideas and build community isn't useful.
Re: The Hypocrisy of Occupy Wall Street
#5Unfortunately, this article (and regrettably most of the 99%ers) are missing the point entirely. This isn't about "99% of us don't have enough". It is about "The rich get richer simply because they are rich." The article states We created the beast that we protest against. We also possess the power to defeat it... We have the means for change, we work hard for it, and WE are the 99%. The problem is we've been working…
I agree that this article is missing the point. It seems to oversimplify the protesters' message so that it can be easily dismissed as hypocrisy without debating the issues.
It's also difficult to pin down a single message that the OWS movement is trying to get across. This article paints it as a "down with the machine" movement. The OWS website states that they want "to restore democracy in America" [1]. While democracy is an overloaded word that can mean lots of things to different people, in this context I take it to mean that the protesters feel like the American political system isn't working for them anymore. Although we might cite different causes, an oft-cited cause is corporate interests. It's easy to jump from protesting against corporate interest to "down with the machine," which is what I think this article is doing.
Also on the OWS website, it states: "We use a tool known as a 'people's assembly' to facilitate collective decision making in an open, participatory and non-binding manner." If that's true, there's going to be a lot of ideas proposed and some will seem radical. Attacking the movement based on the ideas of a subset of the protesters avoids dealing with the issues that they're trying to solve.
Re: The Hypocrisy of Occupy Wall Street
#6Last night I talked with a friend about all this. My friend pointed out many of the things this author did: people are protesting against the machine using things the machine created; they don't provide a solution but simply a redundant description of the problem. I know and respect a number of people who are protesting in my city, and they are sincere in their efforts to make change. The trouble is, I don't think th…
I agree almost completely. I organise a food co-op out of my living room, have lived in multiple cooperative houses, and am going before the city council tonight to get permission to build an eco-village on land that I cooperatively purchased together with friends for this purpose. However, I think there is validity in being angry and protesting about the way things are. If only to publicly show how many people feel…
I agree with you completely that awareness is useful. The trouble is, at least where I live, I wager that a large number of people who would otherwise be sympathetic are put off because of some minor hypocrisies. Bands of (relatively) well-to-do college students and people who apparently have the luxury of skipping work and school do not paint a picture of a struggling middle class. That they are raging against the machine over a 3G connection is probably damaging as well.
Now, you and I might both see that these are the only people who can protest precisely because working stiffs are busy trying to make ends meet, but they don't elicit a lot of sympathy from people who are also just trying to get where they need to go without much fuss.
Incidentally, good luck with your plans! Where are you located?
Re: The Hypocrisy of Occupy Wall Street
#7Last night I talked with a friend about all this. My friend pointed out many of the things this author did: people are protesting against the machine using things the machine created; they don't provide a solution but simply a redundant description of the problem. I know and respect a number of people who are protesting in my city, and they are sincere in their efforts to make change. The trouble is, I don't think th…
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Re: The Hypocrisy of Occupy Wall Street
#8Last night I talked with a friend about all this. My friend pointed out many of the things this author did: people are protesting against the machine using things the machine created; they don't provide a solution but simply a redundant description of the problem. I know and respect a number of people who are protesting in my city, and they are sincere in their efforts to make change. The trouble is, I don't think th…
A real solution would be to get rid of these things: forsake the extra computers, the wireless contract, food produced and distributed by soulless corporations, the fancy cars; join or start a local food cooperative, live in a housing co-op, support credit unions, and aggressively buy local - even if it means severe inconvenience.
Sure, that's one solution. But it depends on how you define the problem. The article here is rubbish and of no insight into any rational view of the problem (nor any insight into OWS). Indeed, the basic problem is very easy to express and comprehend: corporate control of government that results in socialism for corporate interests. That is the fundamental problem that has resulted in OWS. This is not new or shocking information. There is no big mystery as to the why's or what-for's of OWS.
Forsaking convenience items is certainly not required to "solve" that problem nor is it likely to have any impact on that problem (canceling a cell phone plan, supporting credit unions or starting a local food co-op will have exactly zero impact on corporate control of government). Forsaking convenience items is only required if you conceive the problem to be a lack of "back to the land" mentality. That may or may not be a problem, but it is certainly not any rational view of OWS' perception of the problem.
The article here and most other viewpoints (which are mostly critical of OWS) that I've seen appear to wish to narrow down everything to two absolute extremes: either everything stays exactly how it is, or everything is destroyed. There is a massive area between those extremes. It's that area that OWS is targeting.
Re: The Hypocrisy of Occupy Wall Street
#9Last night I talked with a friend about all this. My friend pointed out many of the things this author did: people are protesting against the machine using things the machine created; they don't provide a solution but simply a redundant description of the problem. I know and respect a number of people who are protesting in my city, and they are sincere in their efforts to make change. The trouble is, I don't think th…
A real solution would be to get rid of these things: forsake the extra computers, the wireless contract, food produced and distributed by soulless corporations, the fancy cars; join or start a local food cooperative, live in a housing co-op, support credit unions, and aggressively buy local - even if it means severe inconvenience. Sure, that's one solution. But it depends on how you define the problem. The article he…
There is a massive area between the two extremes, and I will assume you are putting me at one of them. This means I failed to communicate.
If my food, entertainment, services, and small expenditures are predominantly local and my money is in a credit union I and my community have control over, then 1) I haven't gone "back to the land" but simply back to my home, and 2) that is money not going to any of the companies legislating their own irresponsible bailouts.
Supporting strong local organizations owned and directed by local members can and absolutely would stymie Wall Street and corporate socialism.
Re: The Hypocrisy of Occupy Wall Street
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
A real solution would be to get rid of these things: forsake the extra computers, the wireless contract, food produced and distributed by soulless corporations, the fancy cars; join or start a local food cooperative, live in a housing co-op, support credit unions, and aggressively buy local - even if it means severe inconvenience. Sure, that's one solution. But it depends on how you define the problem. The article he…
There is a massive area between the two extremes, and I will assume you are putting me at one of them. This means I failed to communicate. If my food, entertainment, services, and small expenditures are predominantly local and my money is in a credit union I and my community have control over, then 1) I haven't gone "back to the land" but simply back to my home, and 2) that is money not going to any of the companies…
You stated a "real solution" was what I summarized as "back to the land", including dropping wireless contracts. That says to me you view other solutions as not real. That's an indication, not explicit certainly, that at some level you believe there are only 2 extremes available, as I described.
Another solution is to demonstrate displeasure with the operation of government and methods of corporate interests. Engage enough citizens and sustain that demonstration. At some critical mass of both energy (people) and time, politicians will begin to notice and adjust their implementation of governance.
This is a known good solution. See: civil rights protests in the 1960's as just one example.