Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt
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Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt
#2Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt
#3[But a leading scientist told Sir Jeremy that “further debate would do unnecessary harm to science in general and science in China in particular”. Dr Collins, the former director of the US National Institutes of Health, warned it could damage “international harmony”.]
The entire foundation of science is based upon empirical observation and asking hypothetical questions. It is discouraging that scientists can make statements like this and get away with it.
Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt
#4Is there a way to disprove the lab leak hypothesis?
Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt
#5[But a leading scientist told Sir Jeremy that “further debate would do unnecessary harm to science in general and science in China in particular”. Dr Collins, the former director of the US National Institutes of Health, warned it could damage “international harmony”.] The entire foundation of science is based upon empirical observation and asking hypothetical questions. It is discouraging that scientists can make sta…
Scientists do not have the luxury of pretending politics and bad actors don’t exist.
Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt
#6>"Professor Andrew Rambaut, from the University of Edinburgh, also said that furin cleavage site “strikes me as unusual”."
>"He added: “I think the only people with sufficient information or access to samples to address it would be the teams working in Wuhan.”"
This pair of quotes has a completely different meaning from the original quote it sliced up:
>"I am also agnostic on this – I do not have any experience of laboratory virology and don’t know what is likely or not in that context. From a (natural) evolutionary point of view the only thing here that strikes me as unusual is the furin cleavage site. It strongly suggests to me that we are missing something important in the origin of the virus. My inclination would be that it is a missing host species in which this feature arose because it was selected for in that host. We can see this insertion has resulted in an extremely fit virus in humans – we can also deduce that it is not optimal for transmission in bat species."
>"... [this ellipsis (...) is from the house.gov transcription] The biggest hinderance at the moment (for this and more generally) is the lack of data and information. There have been no genome sequences from Wuhan for cases more recent than the 6 beginning of January and reports, but no information, about virus from non-human animals in Wuhan. If the evolutionary origins of the epidemic were to be discussed, I think the only people with sufficient information or access to samples to address it would be the teams working in Wuhan."
https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2... (pp. 8-9)
To emphasize the very last part: Rambaut is talking about genome sequences from human patients in Wuhan -- not laboratory data from the suspect WIV. But the Telegraph quote implies the opposite.
(Also, obviously I'm not picking any "side" here: dishonesty in the Telegraph doesn't vindicate dishonesty in NIH leadership, and vice-versa).
Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt
#7Is there a way to disprove the lab leak hypothesis?
Disprove it? No. We do innocent until proven guilty in our jurisprudence.
Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt
#8[But a leading scientist told Sir Jeremy that “further debate would do unnecessary harm to science in general and science in China in particular”. Dr Collins, the former director of the US National Institutes of Health, warned it could damage “international harmony”.] The entire foundation of science is based upon empirical observation and asking hypothetical questions. It is discouraging that scientists can make sta…
This is how science works in the post-WW2 era. Most prominent scientists (in any field) seldom do science when they attain their stature -- they manage people (students and postdocs), and many become politicians for their institution or lab to attain more funding.
Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt
#9[But a leading scientist told Sir Jeremy that “further debate would do unnecessary harm to science in general and science in China in particular”. Dr Collins, the former director of the US National Institutes of Health, warned it could damage “international harmony”.] The entire foundation of science is based upon empirical observation and asking hypothetical questions. It is discouraging that scientists can make sta…
> warned it could damage “international harmony”.
I've never understood the argument that people would want to suppress the (accidental) lab-leak hypothesis out of a desire to protect the image of China. If the lab-leak hypothesis is incorrect, that doesn't change the fact that the virus originated in that country, it just means that the virus emerged from a wet market.
I'm not Chinese, but I'd imagine that a country's image is more harmed by accusations of having backwards cultural and food habits (and insufficient government regulation of dangerous markets) rather than potentially just one lone scientist making a mistake while working on advanced genetic research, which is a risk at any such lab in the world.
Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt
#10Is there a way to disprove the lab leak hypothesis?
Yes - an animal host or reservoir is found. It's unusual after 2 years none has been found.