Condo wreckage hints at less steel in columns than design drawings
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Re: Condo wreckage hints at less steel in columns than design drawings
#2the news told me it was climate change tho
Re: Condo wreckage hints at less steel in columns than design drawings
#3Re: Condo wreckage hints at less steel in columns than design drawings
#4The design drawings being referenced. Are they public documents, or I suppose I'm asking, how did those engineers get a hold of it? Can I, a public person get it?
This isn't something I've thought about until now, are all buildings' drawings available at some... Central authority, an archive?
Re: Condo wreckage hints at less steel in columns than design drawings
#5The design drawings being referenced. Are they public documents, or I suppose I'm asking, how did those engineers get a hold of it? Can I, a public person get it? This isn't something I've thought about until now, are all buildings' drawings available at some... Central authority, an archive?
Typically approved, permitted plans are public record on file at the local authority (city or county usually). If you have an address you can request access to the plans.
Re: Condo wreckage hints at less steel in columns than design drawings
#6The design drawings being referenced. Are they public documents, or I suppose I'm asking, how did those engineers get a hold of it? Can I, a public person get it? This isn't something I've thought about until now, are all buildings' drawings available at some... Central authority, an archive?
At least for NYC, it's not easy to get, but in theory NYC has records of all buildings and renovations (that were legally done) as they have to sign off on the drawings to issue permits.
I wish it was public, but I haven't be able to find drawings but you can find permit info.
Re: Condo wreckage hints at less steel in columns than design drawings
#7The design drawings being referenced. Are they public documents, or I suppose I'm asking, how did those engineers get a hold of it? Can I, a public person get it? This isn't something I've thought about until now, are all buildings' drawings available at some... Central authority, an archive?
In the USA most approved plans are public documents, and approval requires code compliance.
Some buildings, like banks or certain public buildings (jails?) don't have publicly available plans.
Some buildings' usage (such as chemical storage or compressed gasses) will require additional detail.
Re: Condo wreckage hints at less steel in columns than design drawings
#8The design drawings being referenced. Are they public documents, or I suppose I'm asking, how did those engineers get a hold of it? Can I, a public person get it? This isn't something I've thought about until now, are all buildings' drawings available at some... Central authority, an archive?
In theory, it seems you can. https://www.buildingrecords.us/blog/how-to-find-blueprints-o...:
“Once the blueprints have been filed by the contractor with the municipality building department, these building plans are public records and technically attainable by anyone wanting to view them.”
That page links to https://www.buildingrecords.us/construction-data/building-pl...
Re: Condo wreckage hints at less steel in columns than design drawings
#9> Mr. Kilsheimer cautioned that it is common in construction for the final product to differ from drawn designs.
Yes, and there's also a decent history of structural failure, or nearly so, from that particular habit.
The Hyatt walkway collapse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse...) is one of the better known - designed one way, built another so it would be easier and cheaper to build, and nobody thought through the changes in terms of how it impacted loading. Result? 114 dead.
The I-35 bridge collapse was another case of "various safety factors were eliminated until the safety factor was less than one." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Mississippi_River_bridge...
> On November 13, 2008, the NTSB released the findings of its investigation. The primary cause of the collapse was the undersized gusset plates, at 0.5 inches (13 mm) thick. Contributing to that design or construction error was the fact that 2 inches (51 mm) of concrete had been added to the road surface over the years, increasing the static load by 20%. Another factor was the extraordinary weight of construction equipment and material resting on the bridge just above its weakest point at the time of the collapse. That load was estimated at 578,000 pounds (262 tonnes), consisting of sand, water and vehicles. The NTSB determined that corrosion was not a significant contributor, but that inspectors did not routinely check that safety features were functional.[126]
There's a lot of redundancy built into modern construction, but if you remove some of it because it's cheaper to build, and other degrades over time from wear, well... at some point, there's nothing left.
It's going to be an interesting report to read, whatever the causes.
Re: Condo wreckage hints at less steel in columns than design drawings
#10The design drawings being referenced. Are they public documents, or I suppose I'm asking, how did those engineers get a hold of it? Can I, a public person get it? This isn't something I've thought about until now, are all buildings' drawings available at some... Central authority, an archive?
The answer is "it depends" on the particular city, county, and/or state.
Florida is a little unusual in that state law makes a very wide range of information public and easy to get. In this case, the town has actually posted all the relevant documents on their website (https://www.townofsurfsidefl.gov/departments-services/town-c...), so you can just click that link to get the plans.
Other places have varying levels of access to building documents. In SF, for example, DBI maintains plans and other documents, but state law prohibits reproduction without the property owner's consent. A member of the public can, however, make an appointment to view the plans in the DBI office. (https://sfdbi.org/DOP)
But generally, yes, all buildings' plans are maintained by (usually) the county-level office that issues permits.