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Modern Python Developer's Toolkit

pycon.switowski.com

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Re: Modern Python Developer's Toolkit

#2

Post by rgwant »

Apart from the fact that the "editor" section sounds like an infomercial for VSCode, why would you overload a beginner with all that virtual environment bloat?

The whole "open" source system is marching backwards towards inscrutable IDEs that do work by magic and leave the user clueless.

Re: Modern Python Developer's Toolkit

#5

Post by anthonygd »

rgwant wrote: post #2

Apart from the fact that the "editor" section sounds like an infomercial for VSCode, why would you overload a beginner with all that virtual environment bloat? The whole "open" source system is marching backwards towards inscrutable IDEs that do work by magic and leave the user clueless.

Back when I started working with Python professionally, virtual environments were required before I could grok things. I just could not wrap my head around the crazy inconsistent behavior and nightmare dependencies until I discovered virtual environments.

I've never become a Python fan, but I really don't think it's even usable without virtual environments.

Re: Modern Python Developer's Toolkit

#6

Post by simonw »

rgwant wrote: post #2

Apart from the fact that the "editor" section sounds like an infomercial for VSCode, why would you overload a beginner with all that virtual environment bloat? The whole "open" source system is marching backwards towards inscrutable IDEs that do work by magic and leave the user clueless.

Virtual environments are, sadly, absolutely crucial for Python beginners to get their heads around if they are to do anything more advanced then "hello world".

When I'm getting someone started I usually say:

"There is a magic incantation involved in Python development called 'activating your virtual environment' - if stuff isn't working as you expect, check that you have done this. Development environments are the hardest thing about learning to program. I'm so sorry."

Re: Modern Python Developer's Toolkit

#7

Post by heresie-dabord »

anthonygd wrote: post #5
rgwant wrote: post #2

Apart from the fact that the "editor" section sounds like an infomercial for VSCode, why would you overload a beginner with all that virtual environment bloat? The whole "open" source system is marching backwards towards inscrutable IDEs that do work by magic and leave the user clueless.

Back when I started working with Python professionally, virtual environments were required before I could grok things. I just could not wrap my head around the crazy inconsistent behavior and nightmare dependencies until I discovered virtual environments. I've never become a Python fan, but I really don't think it's even usable without virtual environments.

Agreed. I understand that some programmers dislike braces, parentheses, and semi-colons. The Python language itself offers notation with a simple set of characters. I do use Python but I prefer other languages and notations.

But as a software project, Python is mayhem. pip+pypi is an embarrassment. After the difficult 2.x -> 3.x transition, the 3.x->3.8 period inflicted a world of pain on anyone trying to develop and deploy stable tooling.

Re: Modern Python Developer's Toolkit

#8

Post by Barrin92 »

I don't have the time right now to watch the whole video so sorry if it's addressed, but what is the current state of packaging python applications for users? This was the biggest pain point for me the last time I worked with python outside of writing libraries. I think I was working on a Qt app and it was such a pain to find a way in particular to target multiple platforms.

Re: Modern Python Developer's Toolkit

#10

Post by 404mm »

Pointing people to VS Code just because it’s one of top three, where the other two options are Visual Studio and NP++ is strange to say at least.

VS Code is probably one of the top five options, but not mentioning PyCharm as one of the top choices is not right.

There’s a significant difference between a general purpose pluggable code editor, such as VC Studio, Atom, Sublime… and actual IDE made for Python.

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