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Why Governments Fail

persuasion.community

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Re: Why Governments Fail

#3
Every organisation has 3 major stages: newborn, mature, and old. When competition is present, old organizations are eaten by newborn organizations. Government is monopoly, so no competition, thus old organization must die first.

Re: Why Governments Fail

#4
There's a lot in here. I was going to make some quotes and comment about some of this, but it's a pretty diverse set of topics.

The main thing is that I didn't see a solid definition on how a failing government is defined or a concrete connection between that and the topics covered. It seems to be Q&A about a bunch of loosely affiliated topics.

Re: Why Governments Fail

#5
post #4

There's a lot in here. I was going to make some quotes and comment about some of this, but it's a pretty diverse set of topics. The main thing is that I didn't see a solid definition on how a failing government is defined or a concrete connection between that and the topics covered. It seems to be Q&A about a bunch of loosely affiliated topics.

> I didn't see a solid definition on how a failing government is defined

I was going to say the same thing!

I would be interested in breaking down the question into much more comprehensible chunks such as, "What does a Government do that they are unable to do effectively by definition?"; "Is there a balance between public and private sector providing services to the taxpayer and how do we decide the balance?"; "If a Government is necessarily slow-moving, what is the correct way to achieve fast-acting and tactical solutions that will be accepted by the public when the time comes to do them?"

I think a really common issue is that Governments are seen as a single entity, when in fact they are more like an ever-changing combination of ideals, abilities and pragmatism. The UK Government is not the same now as it was even 6 months ago, so learning lessons never really works. Any retired Politicians going to face the music for a decision made 10 years ago?

Re: Why Governments Fail

#6
post #3

Every organisation has 3 major stages: newborn, mature, and old. When competition is present, old organizations are eaten by newborn organizations. Government is monopoly, so no competition, thus old organization must die first.

Are you saying that we should have competitive governments? Interesting idea!

Unfortauntely, I think the states are too high at government level. Nothing too bad will happen when one trash company takes over from another trash company but what would happen if some random group took over the defence policy for a country because the current government didn't seem to be doing very well at it?

Re: Why Governments Fail

#7
Did the government fail?

I don't know. We got a vaccine remarkably quickly and the governments (federal and state) distributed it efficiently. I don't blame the government for not taking the virus seriously to start with. SARS and MERS didn't pan out and people, on the left and right (including me), figured COVID would be the same. Some people predicted COVID would be bad but it wasn't crazy to think COVID wouldn't turn into a pandemic.

The countries that did well with COVID are mostly islands and East Asian countries. I doubt the "Chinese and Japanese are really obedient"-type expanations. I wonder if some East Asian countries had antibodies from similar viruses that flew under the radar and granted partial immunity. That's pure speculuation...but even if those countries suceeded due to law and order, that's a double-edged sword. Do we really want to build our society to survive viruses with the fewest causalities or are there perhaps higher ideals (freedom, self determiniation) that we should aspire to? And of course there's no freedom without the freedom to be wrong.

> And where the world needs to head is to establish new means of producing credibility and good reputation that are robust to current technologies. What we’re now calling “populism” might turn out to be the least of our problems.

In terms of populism stuff, I think there's some truth to the idea here that the internet has led to the unmasking of leaders/government as incompetent. To some degree, modern populism consists of people recoiling in horror after realizing just how dumb you can be while holding power. But it's easy to notice other people being wrong and quite hard to do any better yourself. Mostly, these populist movements seem bereft of ideas and are just expressing incoherent outrage.

It will be interesting to see if the internet makes it possible to have better, more accountable governments. I don't discount the possibility. The thing that worries me is that, in my opinion, more transparency is in some sense the problem. We learn about governmental incompetence via the internet but the internet also turns politicians into influencers, and that's a signiciant part of the problem too.

Re: Why Governments Fail

#8
post #7

Did the government fail? I don't know. We got a vaccine remarkably quickly and the governments (federal and state) distributed it efficiently. I don't blame the government for not taking the virus seriously to start with. SARS and MERS didn't pan out and people, on the left and right (including me), figured COVID would be the same. Some people predicted COVID would be bad but it wasn't crazy to think COVID wouldn't t…

I think the Internet (in particular, the social media a lot of people are consuming their news from) is really good at providing anecdata, but really bad at giving perspective to determine context and how to fit the anecdotes into a bigger picture. Because of, for example, correlation algorithms determining what someone reads in their Facebook feed and trying to maximize the topic for engagement, a person chasing a few threads of stories of incompetence can quickly end up with a wall that is nothing but such stories. And even if one doesn't use Facebook, other spaces are vulnerable to the same effects... Chasing Reddit karma involves posting stories that the majority will upvote, posting controversial-but-true content in many topic-specific fora will result in some form of moderation or loss of karma-equivalent, and so on.

The unmasking of incompetence is real, but much less clear is the degree to which it occurs and whether it's the exception or the norm. But it's very easy to assume it's the norm from what one sees on a Facebook wall (and on a different Facebook wall, or in a different group, it's very easy to assume it never happens or all reports of it are overblown).

Re: Why Governments Fail

#9
post #7

Did the government fail? I don't know. We got a vaccine remarkably quickly and the governments (federal and state) distributed it efficiently. I don't blame the government for not taking the virus seriously to start with. SARS and MERS didn't pan out and people, on the left and right (including me), figured COVID would be the same. Some people predicted COVID would be bad but it wasn't crazy to think COVID wouldn't t…

"To some degree, modern populism consists of people recoiling in horror after realizing just how dumb you can be while holding power. But it's easy to notice other people being wrong and quite hard to do any better yourself." italics for emphasis

I think this is true in some cases, but not necessarily in all the issues we today. We're all just human and we all make mistakes. I think the part where it is ok to think we can do better is in how we handle those mistakes. It seems that most leaders tend to be hypocritical, blame the 'other side' for failures, and even ignore failings. Of course, it seems that's the way people get to be in power in the first place in the current political environment, so the people who act differently rarely stand a chance at the federal level.

Re: Why Governments Fail

#10
post #7

Did the government fail? I don't know. We got a vaccine remarkably quickly and the governments (federal and state) distributed it efficiently. I don't blame the government for not taking the virus seriously to start with. SARS and MERS didn't pan out and people, on the left and right (including me), figured COVID would be the same. Some people predicted COVID would be bad but it wasn't crazy to think COVID wouldn't t…

> Do we really want to build our society to survive viruses with the fewest causalities or are there perhaps higher ideals (freedom, self determiniation) that we should aspire to?

I don't see why these have to be mutually exclusive goals. Arguably, there are better ways to get an entire society to cooperate toward a goal without resorting to authoritarianism. This sort of societal engineering is demonstrated in religions, cults, and political tribes all the time. If we can harness it at the scale of an entire country, or even a majority of the world, we could accomplish quite a lot. It's been done before, and today's technology could theoretically enable it at a level that's never been seen in human history. Though we currently seem to be experiencing more of the dark side of the whole phenomenon.

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