Gödel's Loophole
en.wikipedia.org
Gödel's Loophole
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Re: Gödel's Loophole
#2There is no need for a loop hole. A president can do plenty of illegal things without consequences already. Incrementally do it while the public becomes numb to it, or worse, while vocal supporters becomes more nad more entitles, and you get to a dictatorship.
Re: Gödel's Loophole
#3I might have heard that in Godel's library there was a book with the note: "I have a truly marvelous proof that the U.S. Constitution is unstable, but the margin of this book is too small to write it out."
More seriously, this is actually a bit reminiscent of Fermat's famous comment. I suppose when the lawbots become operational in a few years, we'll get a full logical analysis of the Constitution and find the loophole(s).
Re: Gödel's Loophole
#4The law is not a formal system, it's a tool for humans to decide how to act. If those humans decide they want a tyranny, no amount of words on paper could ever stop them.
Re: Gödel's Loophole
#5I might have heard that in Godel's library there was a book with the note: "I have a truly marvelous proof that the U.S. Constitution is unstable, but the margin of this book is too small to write it out." More seriously, this is actually a bit reminiscent of Fermat's famous comment. I suppose when the lawbots become operational in a few years, we'll get a full logical analysis of the Constitution and find the loopho…
Uhm but wouldn’t that be a halting problem?
Re: Gödel's Loophole
#6Spoiler: the article consistently mentions that we don’t know what the loophole is, so the article is incomplete.
Re: Gödel's Loophole
#7This is the prototypical "wow the nerd tried to solve law and lawyering". Yes, the constitution can be ammended to be less democratic. It can also be entirely ignored by everyone, and things can also happen in ways that go against its text, with judges looking the other way!
People are not magically bound by words on a piece of paper, so if you end up being able to go through the (extremely arduous! Moreso than many countries) ammendment process successfully you probably have enough popular support to do whatever you would want in any universe, even with a stricter requirement.
It's embarassing that this anecdote is given almost any weight. It's absolutely the most navel-gazing useless analysis. It does help to serve as an excellent counter-argument to "philosopher kings", though....
Re: Gödel's Loophole
#8I suspect such loopholes exist in other constitutions, constitutions like source codes have influenced other constitutions.
Most recent small example in this area : Government of India used article 370 to ammend article 367 which again affected article 370 to change status of Jammu and Kashmir.
Re: Gödel's Loophole
#9I might have heard that in Godel's library there was a book with the note: "I have a truly marvelous proof that the U.S. Constitution is unstable, but the margin of this book is too small to write it out." More seriously, this is actually a bit reminiscent of Fermat's famous comment. I suppose when the lawbots become operational in a few years, we'll get a full logical analysis of the Constitution and find the loopho…
Uhm but wouldn’t that be a halting problem?
How is it the halting problem?
Re: Gödel's Loophole
#10The law is not a formal system, it's a tool for humans to decide how to act. If those humans decide they want a tyranny, no amount of words on paper could ever stop them.
Another way around is to water down the parts that displease your interests, or choke them up with insane process without formally violating the constitutional letter.
The Italian constitution is among the most robust and failsafe legal ground truths you can have, yet it’s been made sausages of since day-two