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Ask HN: How has Diversity and Inclusion programs impacted your company?

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Ask HN: How has Diversity and Inclusion programs impacted your company?

#1

Post by johnpython »

At my current employer, the D&I program has resulted in the hiring of a lot more white women and barely any underrepresented minorities (URMs)[0]. I have experienced myself and heard from colleagues that referrals of URM candidates were rejected in favor of less qualified white women. It seems white women are the main benefactors of D&I programs just as they were for affirmative action[1]. How has D&I programs impacted your company?

[0]: https://diversity.ucsf.edu/URM-definition

[1]: https://time.com/4884132/affirmative-action-civil-rights-white-women/

Re: Ask HN: How has Diversity and Inclusion programs impacted your company?

#2

Post by spacephysics »

Why should we hire anyone based off the color of their skin/gender, versus for their level of competency?

If a company start optimizing on diversity metrics instead of on ability, then they’ll be crushed by market forces from companies who optimize on ability.

Further, isn’t it a bit patronizing hiring people because they fit in a URM group, instead of hard work to sufficiently pass an interview/test/etc?

Re: Ask HN: How has Diversity and Inclusion programs impacted your company?

#3

Post by pythonslask »

Even if underrepresented minorities are hired, those hired will be the upperclass representatives of those minorities, and a lot has been written on these divisions. It turns out races are not some unified organs. And neither are genders for that matter. There is no solution whereby the owning class can continue exacerbating inequality in a morally righteous manner.

Re: Ask HN: How has Diversity and Inclusion programs impacted your company?

#4

Post by pythonslayer »

spacephysics wrote: post #2

Why should we hire anyone based off the color of their skin/gender, versus for their level of competency? If a company start optimizing on diversity metrics instead of on ability, then they’ll be crushed by market forces from companies who optimize on ability. Further, isn’t it a bit patronizing hiring people because they fit in a URM group, instead of hard work to sufficiently pass an interview/test/etc?

I think you’re right, but you may be missing why companies do this and which companies do it. It’s a public relations effort and a legal security. They are protecting themselves from media scandals and lawsuits, and nothing more. I am not being cynical. These are corporate firms managed by a board of investors.

So the extent of such efforts is dependent on the companies’ priorities. If a company is not turning a sufficient surplus in the first place, profit will be higher on their priority list. Otherwise, security will be higher, relatively speaking.

Re: Ask HN: How has Diversity and Inclusion programs impacted your company?

#5

Post by superbcarrot »

spacephysics wrote: post #2

Why should we hire anyone based off the color of their skin/gender, versus for their level of competency? If a company start optimizing on diversity metrics instead of on ability, then they’ll be crushed by market forces from companies who optimize on ability. Further, isn’t it a bit patronizing hiring people because they fit in a URM group, instead of hard work to sufficiently pass an interview/test/etc?

I think that I agree with your overall point but this

> If a company start optimizing on diversity metrics instead of on ability, then they’ll be crushed by market forces from companies who optimize on ability.

isn't necessarily true. A company's success is only very loosely related to the ability of its employees.

Re: Ask HN: How has Diversity and Inclusion programs impacted your company?

#6

Post by Proven »

superbcarrot wrote: post #5
spacephysics wrote: post #2

Why should we hire anyone based off the color of their skin/gender, versus for their level of competency? If a company start optimizing on diversity metrics instead of on ability, then they’ll be crushed by market forces from companies who optimize on ability. Further, isn’t it a bit patronizing hiring people because they fit in a URM group, instead of hard work to sufficiently pass an interview/test/etc?

I think that I agree with your overall point but this > If a company start optimizing on diversity metrics instead of on ability, then they’ll be crushed by market forces from companies who optimize on ability. isn't necessarily true. A company's success is only very loosely related to the ability of its employees.

wut?

Re: Ask HN: How has Diversity and Inclusion programs impacted your company?

#7

Post by aahortwwy »

spacephysics wrote: post #2

Why should we hire anyone based off the color of their skin/gender, versus for their level of competency? If a company start optimizing on diversity metrics instead of on ability, then they’ll be crushed by market forces from companies who optimize on ability. Further, isn’t it a bit patronizing hiring people because they fit in a URM group, instead of hard work to sufficiently pass an interview/test/etc?

> hard work to sufficiently pass an interview/test/etc?

Interviews are bullshit, arbitrary, and random, as discussed at length in countless HN threads.

Then any time diversity hiring is discussed we suddenly forget that we (collectively, as an industry) don't have a reliable way of measuring competency.

Re: Ask HN: How has Diversity and Inclusion programs impacted your company?

#8

Post by CobraKing »

spacephysics wrote: post #2

Why should we hire anyone based off the color of their skin/gender, versus for their level of competency? If a company start optimizing on diversity metrics instead of on ability, then they’ll be crushed by market forces from companies who optimize on ability. Further, isn’t it a bit patronizing hiring people because they fit in a URM group, instead of hard work to sufficiently pass an interview/test/etc?

all things considered (i.e. equal performance on an interview/test/etc.) it makes better economic sense to hire more women and URMs. A cynic would say that's because it's more acceptable to pay less. But I would argue that someone who has built a successful career despite the headwinds of racism/sexism/implicit biases is going to be tougher and more resilient in the face of unexpected challenges than someone, who for reasons outside their control, has gone through life on an 'easier difficulty level'.

And in fields where innovation matters, more diverse teams are more creative because they explore a larger space of ideas (https://www.pnas.org/content/117/17/9284).

To give another reason, a team that fits into a narrow demographic is unlikely to make products that appeal broadly or to other demographics. This creates market opportunities for more diverse teams. For instance, the Spanx founder was able to create a billion dollar company BECAUSE her inventions were dismissed by male-dominated teams in the garment industry.

Re: Ask HN: How has Diversity and Inclusion programs impacted your company?

#9

Post by ThePadawan »

Maybe not the data point you're looking for (outside US):

There are none, so none.

In fact, a lot of the implicit biases in the process remain the same as the last 50 years, like how it's regularly advised your CV should include date of birth and portrait.

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