Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone
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Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone
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Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone
#2About the USA-made version of Librem 5:
> it’s kind of appalling that literally anyone would pay this much. It’s kind of appalling that Purism would charge this much. I can imagine a scheme where the parts are shipped from China, and verified and assembled by a part-time college student in the States and they’d likely still be able to price it cheaper than $1999.00.
There are definitely valid reasons not to buy Chinese products: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott_Chinese_products. Also what are the other competing smartphones which are made in USA?
Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone
#3About the USA-made version of Librem 5: > it’s kind of appalling that literally anyone would pay this much. It’s kind of appalling that Purism would charge this much. I can imagine a scheme where the parts are shipped from China, and verified and assembled by a part-time college student in the States and they’d likely still be able to price it cheaper than $1999.00. There are definitely valid reasons not to buy Chine…
Are there any? It costs the Earth to build in America. It might not even be possible. Maybe you can assemble in America but it seems like a fool's errand. Like five people want this and they're also so obsessive about other things that they won't buy your stuff unless it's perfect anyway.
Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone
#4> It’s obviously not really appropriate to compare the Librem 5 and the Pinephone spec for spec.
If you still want to do it, check this: https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-p....
Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone
#5About the USA-made version of Librem 5: > it’s kind of appalling that literally anyone would pay this much. It’s kind of appalling that Purism would charge this much. I can imagine a scheme where the parts are shipped from China, and verified and assembled by a part-time college student in the States and they’d likely still be able to price it cheaper than $1999.00. There are definitely valid reasons not to buy Chine…
Are there any? It costs the Earth to build in America. It might not even be possible. Maybe you can assemble in America but it seems like a fool's errand. Like five people want this and they're also so obsessive about other things that they won't buy your stuff unless it's perfect anyway.
The problem in the US is that everything is aligned against making stuff here. The unions have been in damage control mode for decades, trying to avoid losing the factories that employ two hundred to the more automated factories that employ twenty, but then as a result losing 100% rather than 90% of the jobs to China.
We impose labor and environmental rules on products made in the US but don't require the same standards for products made overseas, even though we could.
China is basically a trust that uses profits in industries it has already taken over to subsidize its entry into industries it hasn't yet, and for decades we did nothing so we could get cheaper shit, claiming that we would keep making the high tech stuff, until we turn around and every phone and computer is made in China.
There are solutions to this. Obvious solutions. But it would imply paying more for stuff because it's not being made in a polluting sweatshop in an undemocratic country which is acting like the nation state version of a 19th century robber baron. (At least initially; you know what stage two of the robber baron playbook is if we do nothing.)
Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone
#6About the USA-made version of Librem 5: > it’s kind of appalling that literally anyone would pay this much. It’s kind of appalling that Purism would charge this much. I can imagine a scheme where the parts are shipped from China, and verified and assembled by a part-time college student in the States and they’d likely still be able to price it cheaper than $1999.00. There are definitely valid reasons not to buy Chine…
> There are definitely valid reasons not to buy Chinese products: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott_Chinese_products. Also what are the other competing smartphones which are made in USA?
Made in USA is a big stretch when nearly all components are imported from abroad.
Better to say "Few screws inserted in USA"
On why you cannot really make thing outside of China:
The biggest proponents of very purposefully locking manufacturing in China are major American companies...
I heard from multiple first hand accounts if Apple trying really hard to move out of China, and putting a concerted multi-year strategy of moving suppliers to TW, and Vietnam. If they cannot move, who will?
The emphasis on the later is because there is positive precedent of any major company succeeding in moving, and that validates beancounter opinion "If multinational A doesn't move, why should we?"
Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone
#7About the USA-made version of Librem 5: > it’s kind of appalling that literally anyone would pay this much. It’s kind of appalling that Purism would charge this much. I can imagine a scheme where the parts are shipped from China, and verified and assembled by a part-time college student in the States and they’d likely still be able to price it cheaper than $1999.00. There are definitely valid reasons not to buy Chine…
I'm not sure why they even offer the USA option. It hardly adds any real value, no one will buy it and people will just whinge about it.
At least it does provide one data point on what it costs to do though.
Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone
#8When reading this, it feels like the goal of those projects have derived?
For me, the "goal" of mainline GNU/Linux smartphones is that we get like PCs. I prefer fedora, you prefer Debian, they prefer Slackware, all is well, we are all free to choose whatever we want for our computer.
Here I'm reading it's all fragmented? And if it's fragmented, I guess it means it doesn't rely enough on Linux drivers, so long term support won't be there?
Is someone "wrong"? Like Librem is saying they are going mainline but actually aren't? Or is it Pinephone? Or I'm misrepreaentating what mainline should mean?
Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone
#9About the USA-made version of Librem 5: > it’s kind of appalling that literally anyone would pay this much. It’s kind of appalling that Purism would charge this much. I can imagine a scheme where the parts are shipped from China, and verified and assembled by a part-time college student in the States and they’d likely still be able to price it cheaper than $1999.00. There are definitely valid reasons not to buy Chine…
> There are definitely valid reasons not to buy Chinese products: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott_Chinese_products . Also what are the other competing smartphones which are made in USA? Made in USA is a big stretch when nearly all components are imported from abroad. Better to say "Few screws inserted in USA" On why you cannot really make thing outside of China: The biggest proponents of very purposefully locki…
Author here: I think this reply and the reply by AnthonyMouse in another sub-thread [1] nail it.
I'd also add that just because you don't want to buy Chinese products != Buy USA made products. There are a vast number of other countries that would jump at the notion of becoming your supply chain, and don't necessarily have all the ethical grievances of supporting China.
I actually think my main objection though had nothing to do with "buying Chinese goods" vs. "not buying Chinese goods." Mainly: why would you buy a $2k smartphone that is grossly overpriced and isn't really providing much more than the base model? As the above comment here says, it should really be closer to "few screws inserted in USA" than "Made in USA."
Re: Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are there any? It costs the Earth to build in America. It might not even be possible. Maybe you can assemble in America but it seems like a fool's errand. Like five people want this and they're also so obsessive about other things that they won't buy your stuff unless it's perfect anyway.
The problem in the US is that everything is aligned against making stuff here. The unions have been in damage control mode for decades, trying to avoid losing the factories that employ two hundred to the more automated factories that employ twenty, but then as a result losing 100% rather than 90% of the jobs to China. We impose labor and environmental rules on products made in the US but don't require the same standa…
> There are solutions to this. Obvious solutions. But it would imply paying more for stuff.
Well, even if you do, you are up to myriad of other issues.
The progressing general business unfriendliness of the West will not go anywhere. If it does not go, the situation will not change even if you put 1000000% tariff on Chinese goods.
I myself been working on setting up a small knock down kit assembly factory 6 years ago in Richmond, Canada. It was a nightmare. We also attempted going across the border to Washington with same results.
If doing even something as simple is that is a guaranteed to fail endeavour, than, what else you think you can do?