Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Debian network-manager: Please restore removed init script

bugs.debian.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

1–10 of 47 posts

Re: Debian network-manager: Please restore removed init script

#2

Post by grifferz »

I submitted this as being interesting because I feel it is a turning point in Debian's long init wars.

The most recent Debian General Resolution on init support said something like "we chose systemd but compatibility with other inits is important"

It did not clarify whether a package maintainer was allowed to remove working SysV init support and refuse to add it back, and this is now what is happening here, so I think the end result of this will set a precedent within Debian that the vote did not.

The package maintainer has remained quiet on their reasons other than "this is intentional", which again might be interesting because it might speak to whether the maintainer needs to defend their choices at all.

In a hypothetical situation, if an upstream piece of software specifically states that it doesn't support non-systemd systems then I could see how a maintainer might want to remove previously-contributed support for being a burden on future maintenance. I am not saying this is the case here, I am just saying this could be a possible argument for why it's not a black and white matter.

In Debian package maintainers have a lot of leeway on what goes on within their packages. In other Linux distributions there are often more centralised groups who would make such a decision ahead of time as a broad project goal.

In Debian these decisions can get referred to the technical committee but that is often considered "the nuclear option".

Re: Debian network-manager: Please restore removed init script

#3

Post by salawat »

And this is why, I won't touch Debian anymore. I get enough BS politics and fief building to deal with elsewhere, and if I really want a Debian package, I'll pop the .deb open, and adopt it to my system conventions.

I'm not sold on Debian's "maintainer knows best" attitude. You are not there to make decisions for the community, you are there to ensure the tools people use and want maintained are.

As soon as you lose sight of the "servant" mentality when sitting in a position of authority is about the time a defenestration is in order. The attitude of the maintainer in light of the obvious interest in that feature in that thread, the GR last year, and the lack of any justification whatsoever on the technical merits of the fix, combined with the gall of asserting the project is maintained is ridiculous. I'm legit angry now. If you can't be arsed to do your job, then stop. Stop detracting from the addition of code required to adapt something to work for a wider user base without good contextual justification, which was not provided.

Re: Debian network-manager: Please restore removed init script

#6

Post by giancarlostoro »

grifferz wrote: post #2

I submitted this as being interesting because I feel it is a turning point in Debian's long init wars. The most recent Debian General Resolution on init support said something like "we chose systemd but compatibility with other inits is important" It did not clarify whether a package maintainer was allowed to remove working SysV init support and refuse to add it back, and this is now what is happening here, so I thin…

What's sad is this is the kind of thing that makes Debian unstable in my eyes. Being able to choose whatever init system you want on your Linux distro is something that should just be a thing.

Additionally I'm confused are these packages not pulled from another source or is Debian the sole developer of this one? I would expect support for other init systems to be in parity with the parent project of the package in question as a result of basing your work off of theirs.

My only experience with Debian packaging is at work and not involved with actual Debian maintainers so I'm unsure of their own process. Is there someone who can shed some light on this?

Re: Debian network-manager: Please restore removed init script

#7

Post by roenxi »

Crikey; filing an NMU without any particular notice is not the act of someone trying to keep the peace. I'm no expert in Debian policy but surely the good form approach is to submit the patch to the bug report and give the maintainer a week to think about it.

I'd love to see SysV init support continued, but that NMU request isn't helping. Maybe try harder with the negotiating first. There could be context outside the bug report, but hostile maintenance is not the path to take. 4 people complaining in a bug report is no quorum for overruling the package maintainer either.

Re: Debian network-manager: Please restore removed init script

#8

Post by tremon »

grifferz wrote: post #2

I submitted this as being interesting because I feel it is a turning point in Debian's long init wars. The most recent Debian General Resolution on init support said something like "we chose systemd but compatibility with other inits is important" It did not clarify whether a package maintainer was allowed to remove working SysV init support and refuse to add it back, and this is now what is happening here, so I thin…

I haven't followed Debian in recent years, but I thought the technical committee had said that maintainers were not to remove working sysvinit support nor refuse patches for it, unless the package itself was clearly tied to the specific init system?

Re: Debian network-manager: Please restore removed init script

#9

Post by phone8675309 »

I can understand the maintainer saying that they need people to test it because they run systemd and therefore don't have a system running another init system to test on. I can't understand removing working support.

Maybe split the SysV support into another package that is maintained by someone who is able and willing to spend the time testing it under other init systems.

Post reply on HN