The Hatpin Peril (2014)
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The Hatpin Peril (2014)
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Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)
#2> "When he lifted his arm and draped it low across her back, Leoti had enough. In a move that would thrill victim of modern-day subway harassment, she reached for her hatpin—nearly a foot long—and plunged it into the meat of the man’s arm. He let out a terrible scream and left the coach at the next stop."
Although what the man did is inappropriate, stabbing him seems excessive. She could've first asked him to stop.
> "A Chicago showgirl, bothered by a masher’s “insulting questions,” beat him in the face with her umbrella until he staggered away."
Again, seems excessive. Why not just tell him off and walk away?
> "Such stories were notable not only for their frequency but also for their laudatory tone; for the first time, women who fought back against harassers were regarded as heroes rather than comic characters, as subjects rather than objects. Society was transitioning, slowly but surely, from expecting and advocating female dependence on men to recognizing their desire and ability to defend themselves."
I would say this is more than self defense. The examples given are overreactions that would be prosecuted as crimes under most circumstances.
Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)
#3> "When he lifted his arm and draped it low across her back, Leoti had enough. In a move that would thrill victim of modern-day subway harassment, she reached for her hatpin—nearly a foot long—and plunged it into the meat of the man’s arm. He let out a terrible scream and left the coach at the next stop." Although what the man did is inappropriate, stabbing him seems excessive. She could've first asked him to stop. >…
You do understand that women were not allowed to vote during the hatpin panic, right?
Perhaps that fact will provide some context as to why women were stabbing men with hatpins for sexually assaulting them. They didn’t have the same rights that men did!
Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)
#4> "When he lifted his arm and draped it low across her back, Leoti had enough. In a move that would thrill victim of modern-day subway harassment, she reached for her hatpin—nearly a foot long—and plunged it into the meat of the man’s arm. He let out a terrible scream and left the coach at the next stop." Although what the man did is inappropriate, stabbing him seems excessive. She could've first asked him to stop. >…
You do understand that women were not allowed to vote during the hatpin panic, right? Perhaps that fact will provide some context as to why women were stabbing men with hatpins for sexually assaulting them. They didn’t have the same rights that men did!
Yes, but that doesn't make it any more reasonable to beat someone in the face with an umbrella for saying something you don't like...
Also, as a separate point, it was only in 1868 that all men were able to vote in the United States, although it seems most men could vote by the 1820s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_voting_rights_in_t...
Would it have been acceptable for a non-property-holding white male in 1820 to beat another man with a stick if the other man offended him, on the basis of the first man lacking voting rights?
Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)
#5> "When he lifted his arm and draped it low across her back, Leoti had enough. In a move that would thrill victim of modern-day subway harassment, she reached for her hatpin—nearly a foot long—and plunged it into the meat of the man’s arm. He let out a terrible scream and left the coach at the next stop." Although what the man did is inappropriate, stabbing him seems excessive. She could've first asked him to stop. >…
You're assuming that women and men are on equal footing, physically. When you politely ask someone to stop invading your space, it's backed by your ability to push them out of it.
If you're 6'2" and the other guy is 6'2" you're on pretty even footing. But if you're 5'1" and the guy is 6'2" you're not on even footing and shouldn't be expected to act like you are.
This is to say nothing of how physically intimidating it is for someone to just enter your personal space like that. And when you're in an enclosed space like a carriage, you have no escape route. So in my mind stabbing the guy in the arm was pretty mellow. There's no telling where things would have gone from there.
If you're at all concerned about getting stabbed in the arm, maybe get to know the other person before you invade their space.
Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)
#6Earlier quoted context omitted.
You do understand that women were not allowed to vote during the hatpin panic, right? Perhaps that fact will provide some context as to why women were stabbing men with hatpins for sexually assaulting them. They didn’t have the same rights that men did!
Yes, but that doesn't make it any more reasonable to beat someone in the face with an umbrella for saying something you don't like... Also, as a separate point, it was only in 1868 that all men were able to vote in the United States, although it seems most men could vote by the 1820s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_voting_rights_in_t... Would it have been acceptable for a non-property-holding white male in…
Have you ever talked to a woman before? Because I’ve asked plenty about what being a woman is like with regards to harassment and unwanted attention from men, and what they described to me might surprise you.
Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)
#7> "When he lifted his arm and draped it low across her back, Leoti had enough. In a move that would thrill victim of modern-day subway harassment, she reached for her hatpin—nearly a foot long—and plunged it into the meat of the man’s arm. He let out a terrible scream and left the coach at the next stop." Although what the man did is inappropriate, stabbing him seems excessive. She could've first asked him to stop. >…
> Why not just tell him off and walk away?
It's very simple to find many, many anecdotal cases where doing this does exactly zilch to actual stop harassment, and sometimes instead results in a man aggressively insulting and harassing the woman for daring to refuse his attention.
Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)
#8> "When he lifted his arm and draped it low across her back, Leoti had enough. In a move that would thrill victim of modern-day subway harassment, she reached for her hatpin—nearly a foot long—and plunged it into the meat of the man’s arm. He let out a terrible scream and left the coach at the next stop." Although what the man did is inappropriate, stabbing him seems excessive. She could've first asked him to stop. >…
> Why not just tell him off and walk away? It's very simple to find many, many anecdotal cases where doing this does exactly zilch to actual stop harassment, and sometimes instead results in a man aggressively insulting and harassing the woman for daring to refuse his attention.
Okay, but it's reasonable to at least attempt it before bashing or stabbing someone, right?
The same thing could be said about many circumstances.
Just because a non-violent attempt to defuse the situation doesn't work in 100% of cases doesn't mean it is okay to skip attempting it, and jump straight to stabbing or bashing someone.
Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)
#9> "When he lifted his arm and draped it low across her back, Leoti had enough. In a move that would thrill victim of modern-day subway harassment, she reached for her hatpin—nearly a foot long—and plunged it into the meat of the man’s arm. He let out a terrible scream and left the coach at the next stop." Although what the man did is inappropriate, stabbing him seems excessive. She could've first asked him to stop. >…
You're assuming that women and men are on equal footing, physically. When you politely ask someone to stop invading your space, it's backed by your ability to push them out of it. If you're 6'2" and the other guy is 6'2" you're on pretty even footing. But if you're 5'1" and the guy is 6'2" you're not on even footing and shouldn't be expected to act like you are. This is to say nothing of how physically intimidating i…
I think stabbing someone has a very high chance of making the situation far more dangerous than just asking the person to stop.
Also, it has been true for centuries that a woman screaming "help!" would draw the attention of all the men in the area (for example the carriage driver in this case) who would be eager to beat the other man to a pulp if he didn't stop harassing her.
Women and children first into the lifeboats, remember? Most men do care about women as a class and even elevate their care for them above their concern for themselves.
Also, although people might give a 5'1" man some leeway regarding using a stick against a 6'2" man if the 6'2" man attacked him first, I don't think anyone would find it acceptable for the 5'1" man to INITIATE the violence using a weapon merely because of the POSSIBILITY that the larger man might attack him.
If you're in a bar and a large man says something insulting to you, do you just skip to attacking him because, if you say something insulting back he might attack you? If you do, I'm pretty sure you're the one who will be charged with a crime.
You know, sometimes people who ask for directions then demand your wallet. Should I just attack everyone who approaches me for directions, because they might be a thief?
Re: The Hatpin Peril (2014)
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why not just tell him off and walk away? It's very simple to find many, many anecdotal cases where doing this does exactly zilch to actual stop harassment, and sometimes instead results in a man aggressively insulting and harassing the woman for daring to refuse his attention.
Okay, but it's reasonable to at least attempt it before bashing or stabbing someone, right? The same thing could be said about many circumstances. Just because a non-violent attempt to defuse the situation doesn't work in 100% of cases doesn't mean it is okay to skip attempting it, and jump straight to stabbing or bashing someone.
> it's reasonable to at least attempt it
Now consider having to do that twice a day, every day or every other day, where in some X% of the cases the man involved may themselves turn violent immediately after being rejected.