Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
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Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
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Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#2Cameras record facts. What if body cam makers stopped providing police body cams?
I can see not sharing the videos to the public, who are notorious for bad and racist judgement, but if the police are racist, that's a police problem, not an evidence problem.
Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#3Cameras record facts. What if body cam makers stopped providing police body cams? I can see not sharing the videos to the public, who are notorious for bad and racist judgement, but if the police are racist, that's a police problem, not an evidence problem.
> Cameras record facts.
What I do in the bathroom is factual, but just because something is factual doesn't mean the police have a right to see it.
> What if body cam makers stopped providing police body cams?
Are you proposing that Ring owners should be subject to the same standard of transparency as people that the government issues guns to?
> if the police are racist, that's a police problem, not an evidence problem.
Uh, it's a societal problem, that society (which includes Amazon) needs to address.
Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#4Cameras record facts. What if body cam makers stopped providing police body cams? I can see not sharing the videos to the public, who are notorious for bad and racist judgement, but if the police are racist, that's a police problem, not an evidence problem.
> Cameras record facts. What I do in the bathroom is factual, but just because something is factual doesn't mean the police have a right to see it. > What if body cam makers stopped providing police body cams? Are you proposing that Ring owners should be subject to the same standard of transparency as people that the government issues guns to? > if the police are racist, that's a police problem, not an evidence probl…
Ring cameras record in public, not your bathroom. What a straw man.
Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#5I support this piecemeal protest, but ultimately we really just need to defund and abolish the police in the US as they are known today and replace them with a new and different organization dedicated to public safety, that is actually legally required to help people (the police are not), and that has huge consequences for integrity failures such as lying.
Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#6A really odd post. I am open to the argument but don’t think Mozilla makes it here. The only piece of evidence they cite for harm— hyperlinked to the phrase “facilitate racial profiling”— leads to a think piece by someone a little creeped out by posts on Nextdoor, which doesn’t mention Ring at all.
I get that people don’t love surveillance. But the evidence is not here that a homeowner or renter’s decision to install a cloud-connected security camera on private property makes them or their community less safe. Unless you make a slew of assumptions that go undefended here, namely: cops are natural aggressors, having these cameras will attract cops, and the harm which these aggressive cops are likely to cause when attracted is greater than the combined deterrent effect of the camera’s presence against other crime + their value for genuine investigative work on crimes which were not deterred. Again, I’m open to the argument, but you need to present really good evidence, not just virtue signal. Because I don’t like getting packages stolen off my porch, and Ring seems like a straightforward way to prevent that.
Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#7Keep in mind all Amazon/Ring are doing is making it a bit easier for users and the police to share this data.
I have Nest cameras and have shared footage with the police on numerous occasions.
Unless these camera companies deny me access to my footage, they can't do anything to prevent me from choosing to share it.
Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Cameras record facts. What I do in the bathroom is factual, but just because something is factual doesn't mean the police have a right to see it. > What if body cam makers stopped providing police body cams? Are you proposing that Ring owners should be subject to the same standard of transparency as people that the government issues guns to? > if the police are racist, that's a police problem, not an evidence probl…
Ring cameras record in public, not your bathroom. What a straw man.
It's not a straw man, because I'm not accusing anyone of making a pro-giving-police-recordings-of-bathrooms argument. On the contrary, I'm assuming we all agree that giving police recordings of what we do in the bathroom would be invasive. This is the basis of a further argument.
Ironically, accusing me of making a straw man argument in this case, is a straw man argument. ;)
Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#9Why is Mozilla getting involved here at all? I would rather my browser manufacturer stay out of politics and activism. It is a customer’s choice to share footage with the police. Why wouldn’t we want to help police identify criminals more quickly?
Re: Mozilla letter to Amazon Ring: stop sharing information with police
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Cameras record facts. What I do in the bathroom is factual, but just because something is factual doesn't mean the police have a right to see it. > What if body cam makers stopped providing police body cams? Are you proposing that Ring owners should be subject to the same standard of transparency as people that the government issues guns to? > if the police are racist, that's a police problem, not an evidence probl…
Ring cameras record in public, not your bathroom. What a straw man.
The issue is of course the extremely broad definition of 'public' in the US which includes virtually everything but your bathroom.
If someone calls the police on you because your paranoid or racist neighbour caught you on their doorbell camera and called the cops because he thought you looked like you 'didn't belong' in the neighbourhood that happened in public, but it's obviously extremely problematic and a recipe for self-imposed policing virtually everywhere.
And that's not actually a hypothetical but something that already happened. (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvyvzd/amazons-home-secur...)