Preliminary Theory of the In-Group Contrarian
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Preliminary Theory of the In-Group Contrarian
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Re: Preliminary Theory of the In-Group Contrarian
#2"You will likely have a sense of where you fall in the orbit of the group(s) you affiliate with: closer to the core or closer to the fringes of some formation. Your feelings about IGCs will probably depend to some extent on this."
For some reason even without the context of which Group we are speaking about/or where I might fit in said group - the term "In Group Contrarian" makes me bristle immediately against said contrarian... I wonder if this reaction is specific to me or if its more general. To brisle against a person who identifies (or in this case is identified) as "contrarian" absent the necessary context (perhaps because absent context...the "contrarian" is describing themself as contrarian just for the sake of it). Fun semantic games.
I'm somewhat surprised by this as I see myself as somewhat rational but this leads me to think that absent other contextual clues for me at least the "default" setting is to "dislike" the contrarian and I can then be swayed by the veracity/rationale of their argument.
Re: Preliminary Theory of the In-Group Contrarian
#3"...the way that dissent from the herding dynamics can be an effective way to game the attention economy..."
, yes, go on...
Re: Preliminary Theory of the In-Group Contrarian
#4"You will likely have a sense of where you fall in the orbit of the group(s) you affiliate with: closer to the core or closer to the fringes of some formation. Your feelings about IGCs will probably depend to some extent on this." For some reason even without the context of which Group we are speaking about/or where I might fit in said group - the term "In Group Contrarian" makes me bristle immediately against said c…
Whether it exists in online communities or IRL IGC are important in order to keep ideology honest, even if the IGC is dishonest.
It’s important that the ideas that convince people into following some behavior have the ideas checked for errors.
Re: Preliminary Theory of the In-Group Contrarian
#5"You will likely have a sense of where you fall in the orbit of the group(s) you affiliate with: closer to the core or closer to the fringes of some formation. Your feelings about IGCs will probably depend to some extent on this." For some reason even without the context of which Group we are speaking about/or where I might fit in said group - the term "In Group Contrarian" makes me bristle immediately against said c…
Whether it exists in online communities or IRL IGC are important in order to keep ideology honest, even if the IGC is dishonest. It’s important that the ideas that convince people into following some behavior have the ideas checked for errors.
Yep - I can definitely agree with the need for checks/balances.
I was just fascinated to find this implicit bias in my "starting point" and wondered if others had a similar or different experience
Re: Preliminary Theory of the In-Group Contrarian
#6"You will likely have a sense of where you fall in the orbit of the group(s) you affiliate with: closer to the core or closer to the fringes of some formation. Your feelings about IGCs will probably depend to some extent on this." For some reason even without the context of which Group we are speaking about/or where I might fit in said group - the term "In Group Contrarian" makes me bristle immediately against said c…
Sorry, but to be honest, I find that reaction rather disturbing and I hope other people do not share it.
My initial reaction to hearing someone as contrarian is not to assume they are right, wrong, pretentious, self-righteous, or whatever ... but, rather to be curious and intrigued that maybe this person carries some valid criticisms of my or others commonly held ideas and beliefs.
I find it makes life much more intellectually gratifying, and I am genuinely put off when I see people in intellectual communities (like software, etc.) not naturally having this instinct towards people who hold contrary views.
It is usually not a bad thing for someone to think differently from yourself or others. In fact, almost all (if not all) ideas have some valid criticisms and counter-arguments or examples. I personally find that it makes for a much more intellectually honest view of the world to consider them.
Re: Preliminary Theory of the In-Group Contrarian
#7"You will likely have a sense of where you fall in the orbit of the group(s) you affiliate with: closer to the core or closer to the fringes of some formation. Your feelings about IGCs will probably depend to some extent on this." For some reason even without the context of which Group we are speaking about/or where I might fit in said group - the term "In Group Contrarian" makes me bristle immediately against said c…
Sorry, but to be honest, I find that reaction rather disturbing and I hope other people do not share it. My initial reaction to hearing someone as contrarian is not to assume they are right, wrong, pretentious, self-righteous, or whatever ... but, rather to be curious and intrigued that maybe this person carries some valid criticisms of my or others commonly held ideas and beliefs. I find it makes life much more inte…
With all due respect - I think you've oversimplified a bit. It goes without saying that "intellectual curiosity to opposing ideas is good". I think anyone would agree contrary views should be treated with intellectual fairness/intrigue - but that's separate from instinctive reactions and I think it's unrealistic to believe people won't have a range of emotions on any given day for n number of reasons.
I was quite surprised to note it myself but just trying to be honest about an unexpected self-observation rather than offer what i think i should feel. Importantly the reaction was in reference to the Contrarian Sans Context (i.e. contrarian for sake of contrarianism; context is everything).
What's more if there are only three default settings to the contrarian (simplifying here - for/against/neutral)... it follows that some sample of any population will begin at each of those defaults and it is unlikely that everyone assumes a neutral position even if that's taken to be favorable. Admittedly it is difficult to discern right now whether this is a localised (in time) reaction for me or if there's something more fixed there.
It could be contended that a mix of default positions (For/against as well as neutral) to the IGC is in fact "normal" - rather than to prescribe that everyone should be neutral and that is always preferable. For example across a population if people assume different starting positions then we could see a variety of responses and perhaps more dynamic conversation at the extremes/edges.
Re: Preliminary Theory of the In-Group Contrarian
#8"Ce qu'il y a d'enivrant dans le mauvais goût, c'est le plaisir aristocratique de déplaire" --Charles Baudelaire
(Sorry for the French quote)
I think that IGC tactics is also very common for the adepts of Dandyism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dandy
Bourdieu also wrote a book on something tangentially related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distinction_(book)
"In a specific social field, agents are constantly caught between two contradictory intentions. To be recognized in a field, one must distinguish oneself from it, but distinguishing oneself also leads to being excluded from it. Officers therefore need to adjust the balance between distinction and compliance. To have style is to follow fashion while standing out from it with a few personal touches." (Translated from the better French version of the wikipedia page)
Re: Preliminary Theory of the In-Group Contrarian
#9"You will likely have a sense of where you fall in the orbit of the group(s) you affiliate with: closer to the core or closer to the fringes of some formation. Your feelings about IGCs will probably depend to some extent on this." For some reason even without the context of which Group we are speaking about/or where I might fit in said group - the term "In Group Contrarian" makes me bristle immediately against said c…
Sorry, but to be honest, I find that reaction rather disturbing and I hope other people do not share it. My initial reaction to hearing someone as contrarian is not to assume they are right, wrong, pretentious, self-righteous, or whatever ... but, rather to be curious and intrigued that maybe this person carries some valid criticisms of my or others commonly held ideas and beliefs. I find it makes life much more inte…
I think there’s a difference: I too enjoy conversation with people who think differently than myself and with whom I disagree. But a self described contrarian may well hold those opinions simply because they are contrary, not because it’s something they actually truly believe. That is rarely a satisfying conversation.
Re: Preliminary Theory of the In-Group Contrarian
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry, but to be honest, I find that reaction rather disturbing and I hope other people do not share it. My initial reaction to hearing someone as contrarian is not to assume they are right, wrong, pretentious, self-righteous, or whatever ... but, rather to be curious and intrigued that maybe this person carries some valid criticisms of my or others commonly held ideas and beliefs. I find it makes life much more inte…
I think there’s a difference: I too enjoy conversation with people who think differently than myself and with whom I disagree. But a self described contrarian may well hold those opinions simply because they are contrary, not because it’s something they actually truly believe. That is rarely a satisfying conversation.
Thanks for clarifying. Exactly what i was getting at - my "default state" was based on the Contrarian sans context (i.e. for the sake of it). Think it's an interesting thought exercise.