TCP Sucks

#1

Post by alyrik » Tue, May 05, 2020, 7:23 PM UTC

TCP Sucks
snell-pym.org.uk

Re: TCP Sucks

#2

Post by adzm » Tue, May 05, 2020, 7:57 PM UTC

I was surprised to see no mention of QUIC!

Re: TCP Sucks

#3

Post by lidHanteyk » Tue, May 05, 2020, 7:57 PM UTC

I still think that NDN [0], Named Data Networking, is the proper successor to TCP/IP. TCP is oriented around streams, but NDN is oriented around blobs of data and names which represent them; as such, NDN is much closer to the application-level concerns that we care about.

The main problem is that namespacing is an extremely political process in any system, including NDN, and so we cannot have nice things.

[0] https://named-data.net/

Re: TCP Sucks

#4

Post by j-pb » Tue, May 05, 2020, 8:00 PM UTC

How can there be so much TCP bashing, without a mention of SCTP. I mean at least that's implemented in some BSDs with ports available for other OSes.

Re: TCP Sucks

#5

Post by ChristianBundy » Tue, May 05, 2020, 8:04 PM UTC

lidHanteyk wrote: post #3

I still think that NDN [0], Named Data Networking, is the proper successor to TCP/IP. TCP is oriented around streams, but NDN is oriented around blobs of data and names which represent them; as such, NDN is much closer to the application-level concerns that we care about. The main problem is that namespacing is an extremely political process in any system, including NDN, and so we cannot have nice things. [0] https:/…

Are there ways to try NDN-like networks today? I spend most of my time building P2P stuff and the "how do I connect my computer to yours" is consistently a major pain point. STUN/TURN can help, but there are so many edge-cases that hurt my brain to think about.

Re: TCP Sucks

#6

Post by mnd999 » Tue, May 05, 2020, 8:04 PM UTC

TCP pretty obviously doesn’t suck as it’s pretty much powered the internet for the last 30ish (maybe more) years. I’m sure it isn’t perfect for every purpose and maybe I can be improved but enough with the click bait.

Re: TCP Sucks

#7

Post by zamadatix » Tue, May 05, 2020, 8:05 PM UTC

lidHanteyk wrote: post #3

I still think that NDN [0], Named Data Networking, is the proper successor to TCP/IP. TCP is oriented around streams, but NDN is oriented around blobs of data and names which represent them; as such, NDN is much closer to the application-level concerns that we care about. The main problem is that namespacing is an extremely political process in any system, including NDN, and so we cannot have nice things. [0] https:/…

I think NDN is largely orthogonal to the problems presented in the article.

Re: TCP Sucks

#8

Post by justicezyx » Tue, May 05, 2020, 8:08 PM UTC

TCP is only one of the transport layer protocols. There are 17 transport layer protocols listed in [1], including TCP.

It was never designed to be the all applicable universal transport protocol either. Or it was, but sane people realize that time window when TCP could be deemed universal is very short.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_layer

Re: TCP Sucks

#9

Post by ape4 » Tue, May 05, 2020, 8:09 PM UTC

mnd999 wrote: post #6

TCP pretty obviously doesn’t suck as it’s pretty much powered the internet for the last 30ish (maybe more) years. I’m sure it isn’t perfect for every purpose and maybe I can be improved but enough with the click bait.

Yeah, TCP is the worst protocol except for all the others.

Re: TCP Sucks

#10

Post by gogoincar » Tue, May 05, 2020, 8:09 PM UTC

j-pb wrote: post #4

How can there be so much TCP bashing, without a mention of SCTP. I mean at least that's implemented in some BSDs with ports available for other OSes.

SCTP also lives on in the WebRTC spec for data channels, so all (modern) browsers also implement it