Ask HN: Why are there almost no intermediate-level learning resources?

#1

Post by pennyintheslot » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 7:25 AM UTC

My experience with learning almost any new language / framework / library goes like this:

1. There are plenty of beginner tutorials. Often they just go through the examples from the docs or show a very simple proof of concept. Not very useful if you can read the docs.

2. Then you are left on your own reading through uncommented GitHub repos to understand how to put these things actually into production for use cases that go beyond 'add a todo to this list'.

You almost never find tutorials on how to structure your application, best practices, common mistakes etc.

That's the knowledge that is really helpful though and that I would pay $$$ to learn. Not 'how to create a simple todo app'. Why are there barely any learning resources that target the intermediate level?

Re: Ask HN: Why are there almost no intermediate-level learning resources?

#2

Post by kashfi » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 7:37 AM UTC

https://hi.hyperskill.org/ ^This might be a good place to learn the intermediate stuff. Python, Java, Kotlin.

More intermediate stuff goes into the data structures and algorithms. https://sp19.datastructur.es/ ^UCB's Josh Hug is a good lecturer, also provides course textbook, hw, side projects.

For best practices, try to get the Head First Design Patterns PDF.

Common mistakes? Search for "Effective " and you should find a PDF for whatever you're looking for.

Also, goalkicker.com has compiled a lot of intermediate stuff from scraping StackOverflow question-answers.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there almost no intermediate-level learning resources?

#3

Post by ansgri » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 7:50 AM UTC

True. This didn’t seem to be the case 10 years ago.

Maybe this is the result of commercialization of information: much finer optimization of follower count inevitably leads to oversimplification and overselling. And experts are increasingly less motivated to share knowledge with non-experts, like in academia where clarity of explanation to outsiders is sometimes valued negatively.

Also, most of the useful beginner to intermediate level content is created in video format, and that’s just grossly inefficient for a busy person: you cannot quickly scan a video, and you need sound, and good understanding of spoken English (IME much harder than reading) so the barrier to learning is actually higher.

Also, there were blogs, and now there are mostly walled gardens. In many industries (e.g. I’m familiar with professional dog training) most information is there and is poorly accessible.

I’d like to hear other opinions too.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there almost no intermediate-level learning resources?

#4

Post by pennyintheslot » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 7:54 AM UTC

kashfi wrote: post #2

https://hi.hyperskill.org/ ^This might be a good place to learn the intermediate stuff. Python, Java, Kotlin. More intermediate stuff goes into the data structures and algorithms. https://sp19.datastructur.es/ ^UCB's Josh Hug is a good lecturer, also provides course textbook, hw, side projects. For best practices, try to get the Head First Design Patterns PDF. Common mistakes? Search for "Effective " and you should f…

Thank you for sharing those!

After looking through your suggestions, I think I better understand what I actually meant with 'intermediate-level learning resources'.

I suppose what I am looking for are videos where people walk you through some really advanced open-source applications and explain the application structure and design decisions they have made. That could be relevant for all sorts of tech stacks and combinations.

Basically a video after which you have a good starting ground to build your own application with a similar tech stack. These videos should ideally be made for open-source applications that follow many best practices for the given tech stack.

I think that would be extremely valuable. As of right now, you are stuck reading through random projects on GitHub and often times you don't even feel confident that the way they have approached the problem, is necessarily sane and a good way to go about it.

It would also be a lot more time-efficient if someone explains the application structure and design decisions to you than if you have to figure it out by yourself.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there almost no intermediate-level learning resources?

#5

Post by jamil7 » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 8:14 AM UTC

One theory of mine is there is far more self promotion in the developer community now than there was when I started. In particular javascript and web development juniors writing blog posts and dev.to articles as a form of self promotion. On the other end of the spectrum are domain experts who make video courses or books on advanced topics. In the intermediate level you have a big gap with not a whole lot of information available.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there almost no intermediate-level learning resources?

#6

Post by yarinr » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 8:20 AM UTC

pennyintheslot wrote: post #4

kashfi wrote: post #2

https://hi.hyperskill.org/ ^This might be a good place to learn the intermediate stuff. Python, Java, Kotlin. More intermediate stuff goes into the data structures and algorithms. https://sp19.datastructur.es/ ^UCB's Josh Hug is a good lecturer, also provides course textbook, hw, side projects. For best practices, try to get the Head First Design Patterns PDF. Common mistakes? Search for "Effective " and you should f…

Thank you for sharing those! After looking through your suggestions, I think I better understand what I actually meant with 'intermediate-level learning resources'. I suppose what I am looking for are videos where people walk you through some really advanced open-source applications and explain the application structure and design decisions they have made. That could be relevant for all sorts of tech stacks and combi…

> I suppose what I am looking for are videos where people walk you through some really advanced open-source applications and explain the application structure and design decisions they have made. That could be relevant for all sorts of tech stacks and combinations.

If that's what you're looking for, consider checking out 'The Architecture of Open Source Applications' here http://aosabook.org/en/index.html

It's not in video form, and the focus, as the name suggests, is on the architecture more than on the tech stack, but you might find it useful.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there almost no intermediate-level learning resources?

#7

Post by kashfi » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 8:21 AM UTC

pennyintheslot wrote: post #4

kashfi wrote: post #2

https://hi.hyperskill.org/ ^This might be a good place to learn the intermediate stuff. Python, Java, Kotlin. More intermediate stuff goes into the data structures and algorithms. https://sp19.datastructur.es/ ^UCB's Josh Hug is a good lecturer, also provides course textbook, hw, side projects. For best practices, try to get the Head First Design Patterns PDF. Common mistakes? Search for "Effective " and you should f…

Thank you for sharing those! After looking through your suggestions, I think I better understand what I actually meant with 'intermediate-level learning resources'. I suppose what I am looking for are videos where people walk you through some really advanced open-source applications and explain the application structure and design decisions they have made. That could be relevant for all sorts of tech stacks and combi…

In that case, these three people come to mind. https://onelonecoder.com/ https://handmadehero.org/

The last dude is TheCherno https://www.youtube.com/user/TheChernoProject/playlists?app=...

All three of these folks walk you through intermediate-level projects with commentary on their decisions.

You should also look into conference talks on the tech stack you are interested in. Then look up the speaker/topic for more specific material.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there almost no intermediate-level learning resources?

#8

Post by yarinr » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 8:28 AM UTC

kashfi wrote: post #7

pennyintheslot wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for sharing those! After looking through your suggestions, I think I better understand what I actually meant with 'intermediate-level learning resources'. I suppose what I am looking for are videos where people walk you through some really advanced open-source applications and explain the application structure and design decisions they have made. That could be relevant for all sorts of tech stacks and combi…

In that case, these three people come to mind. https://onelonecoder.com/ https://handmadehero.org/ The last dude is TheCherno https://www.youtube.com/user/TheChernoProject/playlists?app=... All three of these folks walk you through intermediate-level projects with commentary on their decisions. You should also look into conference talks on the tech stack you are interested in. Then look up the speaker/topic for more…

Handmade Hero is great. I'm not really into game programming, but I wish such an amazing resource would exist for other areas.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there almost no intermediate-level learning resources?

#9

Post by pdevr » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 8:33 AM UTC

In addition to the good points mentioned by others:

1. Out of the total time spent in building an application, a non-significant amount of time is spent on boring tasks to make the application real world ready. In some cases at least, you use third party libraries and custom developed components to do so. Including those in a learning resource/tutorial will, at least in some cases, make the code exponentially more complex to absorb.

2. Some of the code you use for building production-ready applications is proprietary - either proprietary to the developer or to the company.

Sidenote: I would argue that we have an abundance of resources. What we don't have is that many laser focused "here are the 35 most common gotchas you will face while moving this to production and here is exactly what you need to do" type of resources.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there almost no intermediate-level learning resources?

#10

Post by brogrammer2018 » Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 11:25 AM UTC

kashfi wrote: post #2

https://hi.hyperskill.org/ ^This might be a good place to learn the intermediate stuff. Python, Java, Kotlin. More intermediate stuff goes into the data structures and algorithms. https://sp19.datastructur.es/ ^UCB's Josh Hug is a good lecturer, also provides course textbook, hw, side projects. For best practices, try to get the Head First Design Patterns PDF. Common mistakes? Search for "Effective " and you should f…

Thank you for sharing