Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
1–10 of 30 posts
Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#2Is there a public index of candidate treatments, regional success rates and drug interactions?
Edit: https://covid19-druginteractions.org/
PDF page 9 (April 3rd version) lists green for Metformin with all drugs, including CLQ and HCLQ.
Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#3That's really bad news for diabetic mice that have contracted the COVID-19...
As far as humans are concerned - who knows...
Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#4That's really bad news for diabetic mice that have contracted the COVID-19... As far as humans are concerned - who knows...
show me a study where the mouse model had negative correlation to the human trial : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2746847/ , with relation to diabetic drugs and anti malarials?
Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#5OK, so this is a little sobering for someone on 200 mg/day hydroxychloroquine for rheumatoid arthritis. And they were thinking about doubling that, until I complained that it made me feel brain dead. But then, the naproxen that I've been taking for decades is damaging my kidneys. And hurting all the time sucks.
But anyway, I see that metformin is used to treat type 2 diabetes mellitus. And I vaguely recall that the incidence of that disorder has been increasing dramatically. So this is arguably a key red flag for hydroxychloroquine in COVID-19. But not for me, fortunately.
Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#6OK, so this is a little sobering for someone on 200 mg/day hydroxychloroquine for rheumatoid arthritis. And they were thinking about doubling that, until I complained that it made me feel brain dead. But then, the naproxen that I've been taking for decades is damaging my kidneys. And hurting all the time sucks. But anyway, I see that metformin is used to treat type 2 diabetes mellitus. And I vaguely recall that the i…
What do you mean it made you feel brain dead?
Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#7I don’t see how any of this is coming as a surprise to anyone, or even why people are bothering (questionable science behind the choloroquine paper aside, even).
This is a comment I posted to HN three weeks ago, when I was pretty sure (but unfortunately wrong!) that the suggested chloroquine dosage for purportedly treating covid-19 was being reported in the wrong units because it was so high, using only the information in the FDA docs on the chloroquines: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22611041
Choloroquine is very well known to have an extremely low therapeutic index (ratio of fatal dosage to effective dosage) and people (well, non-infant children) have been known to die from just a 1g dose. The recommendation for Covid-19 starts at an order of magnitude higher than the recommended FDA dosage for malarial suppression.
(Pretty much) everything can kill viruses at high enough doses. The question is if it can do it without killing the patient as well, and it is eminently clear from existing, solid research that choloroquine doesn’t fit that bill.
Hydroxychloroquine is better tolerated than chloroquine base, but not that much more to sufficiently matter. It also has its own horrible dangers (including complete blindness from accelerated macular degeneration) that have been well documented at long-term “low” dosages; it is not a stretch to assume they would happen with short term high dosages.
There is a reason these only work in vitro - you don’t have to worry about killing the patient there.
Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#8That's really bad news for diabetic mice that have contracted the COVID-19... As far as humans are concerned - who knows...
Well, keeping track of metformin use would be pretty easy. You could even exclude those using it from trials, unless they signed off after full disclosure.
Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#9I don’t see how any of this is coming as a surprise to anyone, or even why people are bothering (questionable science behind the choloroquine paper aside, even). This is a comment I posted to HN three weeks ago, when I was pretty sure (but unfortunately wrong!) that the suggested chloroquine dosage for purportedly treating covid-19 was being reported in the wrong units because it was so high, using only the informati…
“Only work in vitro” and the fact it’s actively used around the world in vivo contradict.
Also can you cite the solid research showing hydroxychloroquine + arithromycin failing for covid-19?
Re: Fatal toxicity of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with metformin in mice [pdf]
#10The combination with met form in suggests this has little relevance to the Covid-19 discussion?
The drugs are very old and very well understood and have very modest safety profiles.