The high cost of a free coding bootcamp
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The high cost of a free coding bootcamp
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Re: The high cost of a free coding bootcamp
#230k?! You are honestly better off taking two yeas of night courses at a community college, and it will probably cost you half of that for more classroom time.
Bootcamp programs are really crap. Even in a traditional classroom setting, you only get out of it what you put in. I know CompSci majors who graduated only knowing Java and who were totally lost if they had to replace a ram chip in a computer. I knew others who would try new languages every semester and who probably still keep up with tech news in our industry.
Boot camps are more of a filter to find people who are going to put in that effort anyway. You have to in order to be able to make it. But I feel they're also part of this hustle culture bullshit; you're better off taking your time and learning slowly (and more affordably) rather than trying to cram everything in to 12 to 24 weeks.
Re: The high cost of a free coding bootcamp
#3The attempt to portray income share agreements as bad is very large stretch:
> These ISAs are the bedrock of Lambda’s program. They allow the school to market itself as an “accessible” computer science education. But critics, like Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), have warned that ISAs carry many of the pitfalls of traditional private student loans, “with the added danger of deceptive rhetoric and marketing that obscure their true nature.”
Yeah, except for one massive pitfall that student loans have and ISAs don't: With ISAs you only start to pay once you actually start making money whereas student loans saddle graduates with debt regardless of their job prospects. If the graduates of the Lambda school don't land jobs then the school doesn't get paid. With traditional student loans, the school gets paid even if their graduates are unemployed.
ISAs seem strictly better to me. It shifts the risk burden onto the school, and creates monetary incentives to improve the job prospects of graduates. By comparison, traditional loans put the risk burden on the student and because the university is paid upfront there is not as much incentive to better the job prospects of graduates.
Re: The high cost of a free coding bootcamp
#430k?! You are honestly better off taking two yeas of night courses at a community college, and it will probably cost you half of that for more classroom time. Bootcamp programs are really crap. Even in a traditional classroom setting, you only get out of it what you put in. I know CompSci majors who graduated only knowing Java and who were totally lost if they had to replace a ram chip in a computer. I knew others wh…
Lambda School is 9 months full-time (40+ hours/week) and 18 months part-time (20+ hours/week).
Re: The high cost of a free coding bootcamp
#530k?! You are honestly better off taking two yeas of night courses at a community college, and it will probably cost you half of that for more classroom time. Bootcamp programs are really crap. Even in a traditional classroom setting, you only get out of it what you put in. I know CompSci majors who graduated only knowing Java and who were totally lost if they had to replace a ram chip in a computer. I knew others wh…
Lambda School is 9 months full-time (40+ hours/week) and 18 months part-time (20+ hours/week).
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Re: The high cost of a free coding bootcamp
#630k?! You are honestly better off taking two yeas of night courses at a community college, and it will probably cost you half of that for more classroom time. Bootcamp programs are really crap. Even in a traditional classroom setting, you only get out of it what you put in. I know CompSci majors who graduated only knowing Java and who were totally lost if they had to replace a ram chip in a computer. I knew others wh…
I think as far as learning to code, bootcamps aren't much better than following tutorials online. I do, however, think that bootcamps are good at getting people who already know how to code to learn how to code well, and code in a job environment. There's probably a good market for classes aimed at people who have already learned basic coding through online tutorials but now want to refine their skills to the point that they are viable in the job market.
Re: The high cost of a free coding bootcamp
#7The attempt to portray income share agreements as bad is very large stretch: > These ISAs are the bedrock of Lambda’s program. They allow the school to market itself as an “accessible” computer science education. But critics, like Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), have warned that ISAs carry many of the pitfalls of traditional private student loans, “with the added danger of deceptive rhetoric and marketing that obscure…
"strictly better" and "carry many of the pitfalls of traditional private student loans" aren't contradictory.
ISAs can be, and are, better than student loans. But they're not a universal good, as demonstrated in this article: if you are on the receiving end of a crap course that doesn't help you get a job is it really good that you'll have to pay for it (when you get a well paying job from entirely unconnected means)?
Re: The high cost of a free coding bootcamp
#8Of 20 people I've interviewed who completed a coding bootcamp without prior CS education in the past year or so, I think 1 passed the phone screen (all front end). At this point I outright reject them because of the futility.
Re: The high cost of a free coding bootcamp
#9The attempt to portray income share agreements as bad is very large stretch: > These ISAs are the bedrock of Lambda’s program. They allow the school to market itself as an “accessible” computer science education. But critics, like Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), have warned that ISAs carry many of the pitfalls of traditional private student loans, “with the added danger of deceptive rhetoric and marketing that obscure…
"strictly better" and "carry many of the pitfalls of traditional private student loans" aren't contradictory. ISAs can be, and are, better than student loans. But they're not a universal good, as demonstrated in this article: if you are on the receiving end of a crap course that doesn't help you get a job is it really good that you'll have to pay for it (when you get a well paying job from entirely unconnected means)…
> if you are on the receiving end of a crap course that doesn't help you get a job is it really good that you'll have to pay for it (when you get a well paying job from entirely unconnected means)?
When the alternative is:
> if you are on the receiving end of a crap course that doesn't help you get a job is it really good that you'll have to pay for it (with interest, even if you're still unemployed after taking the course)?
Yeah, the former is really good.
Sure, it'd be better if the courses were free. But are you going to spend two years teaching computer science without pay? I'm not going to, and I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that most people won't either.
Re: The high cost of a free coding bootcamp
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
"strictly better" and "carry many of the pitfalls of traditional private student loans" aren't contradictory. ISAs can be, and are, better than student loans. But they're not a universal good, as demonstrated in this article: if you are on the receiving end of a crap course that doesn't help you get a job is it really good that you'll have to pay for it (when you get a well paying job from entirely unconnected means)…
> if you are on the receiving end of a crap course that doesn't help you get a job is it really good that you'll have to pay for it (when you get a well paying job from entirely unconnected means)? When the alternative is: > if you are on the receiving end of a crap course that doesn't help you get a job is it really good that you'll have to pay for it ( with interest , even if you're still unemployed after taking th…
> When the alternative is
Your supposition is that there are two options for everyone:
a) go deep into student debt
b) go deep into ISA debt
and no others. I contend that isn't the case. You could do neither. When you're in danger of getting into serious debt via an ISA to a company that doesn't seem to be competently running courses that will lead to employment it's only sensible to question whether it's worth signing up in the first place.