Twinkle Notes: Cross-platform encrypted notes app
1–10 of 52 posts
Re: Twinkle Notes: Cross-platform encrypted notes app
#2I've seen a lot of these kinds of apps lately that have their own one-off sync mechanism. Can I ask what were the design considerations that led to that choice, rather than letting users sync a store via their own back end (Dropbox, iCloud, rsync...)?
Re: Twinkle Notes: Cross-platform encrypted notes app
#3I've seen a lot of these kinds of apps lately that have their own one-off sync mechanism. Can I ask what were the design considerations that led to that choice, rather than letting users sync a store via their own back end (Dropbox, iCloud, rsync...)?
I develop an app like this (https://actualbudget.com/) and I'll give you my reasons.
Those kinds of syncing work will files, and treat each individual file as a blob. Apps don't work this way. Apps need databases and fine-grained change tracking. You absolutely don't want to make a change in two places on two separate devices and then have a sync conflict. If you throw the sqlite db file on dropbox, that's exactly what will happen.
You could try to build your app around files, but now you are rebuilding a database (and not a good one).
There are a few services that offer syncing more appropriate for apps, like Apple's CloudKit (I think that's the one?). These could work, but in Apple's case you can only run your your app on macOS/iOS.
There are a few generic syncing layers like PouchDB, and there are tradeoffs with all of those. Some of these tradeoffs are deal breakers. (there aren't a ton of good options yet)
But there are good reasons why you an app can't just eschew syncing onto the user, and assume they'll find a good syncing service. It needs to be tightly integrated with how the database works.
Re: Twinkle Notes: Cross-platform encrypted notes app
#4I've seen a lot of these kinds of apps lately that have their own one-off sync mechanism. Can I ask what were the design considerations that led to that choice, rather than letting users sync a store via their own back end (Dropbox, iCloud, rsync...)?
I develop an app like this ( https://actualbudget.com/ ) and I'll give you my reasons. Those kinds of syncing work will files, and treat each individual file as a blob. Apps don't work this way. Apps need databases and fine-grained change tracking. You absolutely don't want to make a change in two places on two separate devices and then have a sync conflict. If you throw the sqlite db file on dropbox, that's exactly…
Those are all good reasons but I’d argue that starting from the desire to be able to use existing sync services and building on that may be more user friendly.
Yes you essentially need to rebuild a database, but this is for example what 1Password did.
Re: Twinkle Notes: Cross-platform encrypted notes app
#5Earlier quoted context omitted.
I develop an app like this ( https://actualbudget.com/ ) and I'll give you my reasons. Those kinds of syncing work will files, and treat each individual file as a blob. Apps don't work this way. Apps need databases and fine-grained change tracking. You absolutely don't want to make a change in two places on two separate devices and then have a sync conflict. If you throw the sqlite db file on dropbox, that's exactly…
Those are all good reasons but I’d argue that starting from the desire to be able to use existing sync services and building on that may be more user friendly. Yes you essentially need to rebuild a database, but this is for example what 1Password did.
I disagree. I mean, it depends on the kind of app. The data requirements of some apps might do well in a simpler model that can work OK with existing syncing services.
But the majority of apps need more complex needs and you definitely should not go and build a new database. The user experience will end up being flaky (syncing problems) and/or slow (the database is not good). Not to mention that now in addition to setting up the app, the user now needs to go sign up for one of those services if they haven't already.
With integrated syncing, the user just fires up the app and syncing works and they never have to care about how it works.
There's a reason a whole field of research exists into things like CRDTs. Distributed apps are not trivial, and only ones with simple data needs could get by without a more rigorous approach.
Re: Twinkle Notes: Cross-platform encrypted notes app
#6I've seen a lot of these kinds of apps lately that have their own one-off sync mechanism. Can I ask what were the design considerations that led to that choice, rather than letting users sync a store via their own back end (Dropbox, iCloud, rsync...)?
I develop an app like this ( https://actualbudget.com/ ) and I'll give you my reasons. Those kinds of syncing work will files, and treat each individual file as a blob. Apps don't work this way. Apps need databases and fine-grained change tracking. You absolutely don't want to make a change in two places on two separate devices and then have a sync conflict. If you throw the sqlite db file on dropbox, that's exactly…
If you don't mind, what type of database does 'Actualbudget' use?
Thx!
Re: Twinkle Notes: Cross-platform encrypted notes app
#7Just wanted to say I love this business model of providing a free open source app, with convenient secure syncing being the paid option.
The trade-offs for a user who's committed to not paying for the premium features are mainly about convenience and security (having to maintain a fork, and missing out on automatic security updates), which ressembles those they would have to make by pirating a closed-source app.
Right now the license is AGPL, is this temporary (since the website calls the app "Source available" vs "Open-Source")?
PS: The submission title should begin with "Show HN:".
Re: Twinkle Notes: Cross-platform encrypted notes app
#8Kudos on the courage to go with the AGPL. It immediately raises my interest quite a bit.
Re: Twinkle Notes: Cross-platform encrypted notes app
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those are all good reasons but I’d argue that starting from the desire to be able to use existing sync services and building on that may be more user friendly. Yes you essentially need to rebuild a database, but this is for example what 1Password did.
I disagree. I mean, it depends on the kind of app. The data requirements of some apps might do well in a simpler model that can work OK with existing syncing services. But the majority of apps need more complex needs and you definitely should not go and build a new database. The user experience will end up being flaky (syncing problems) and/or slow (the database is not good). Not to mention that now in addition to se…
I generally agree with your reasoning, but recently experienced a counter-example myself. I recently picked up Joplin for note-taking, and the fact that it can sync reliably through my NextCloud instance via WebDAV was the deciding factor in me sticking with it. If I had to rely on a company to stick around to sync my notes, or I had to run a custom backend, I would have simply moved on. As is, Joplin is pretty close to an ideal note-taking system for me.
Re: Twinkle Notes: Cross-platform encrypted notes app
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree. I mean, it depends on the kind of app. The data requirements of some apps might do well in a simpler model that can work OK with existing syncing services. But the majority of apps need more complex needs and you definitely should not go and build a new database. The user experience will end up being flaky (syncing problems) and/or slow (the database is not good). Not to mention that now in addition to se…
I generally agree with your reasoning, but recently experienced a counter-example myself. I recently picked up Joplin for note-taking, and the fact that it can sync reliably through my NextCloud instance via WebDAV was the deciding factor in me sticking with it. If I had to rely on a company to stick around to sync my notes, or I had to run a custom backend, I would have simply moved on. As is, Joplin is pretty close…
That's awesome, there's definitely room for apps like that. I have nothing against them, but there are tradeoffs. Seems like that could work well for that kind of app.