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Artificial Morality

blog.lareviewofbooks.org

1–10 of 19 posts

Re: Artificial Morality

#2
The article's underlying thesis seems to be summarized by

> The practitioners of AI are not up-front about the genuine allure of their enterprise, which is all about the old-school Steve-Jobsian charisma of denting the universe while becoming insanely great.

But that... doesn't seem true? Most modern AI practitioners, especially the prominent ones, profess that their work is going to change the world forever and that's why they want to do it. So I'm not sure what the author is really proposing that AI practitioners should do. Work on less important problems? Play it by ear instead of trying to develop moral principles preemptively?

Re: Artificial Morality

#3
Interesting read, and some of it rings true for me, but the article is a little bland.

A parallel observation: In the "old days" of the internet, the shining new capability of connecting computers, sharing documents, web pages, software, messages, opinions, and, of course, pornography, the feeling of the day was one of betterment. The network would allow for up-turning out-dated businesses and processes of the past, and we will all be better for it. Information wants to be free!

Yeah, sure.

Information wants to be free? Well, if you consider my click-stream, search history, and probably every keystroke I enter, then yes, that information has certainly been freed. I can even search this treasure trove of information, if I'm just willing to share every piece of personal information about me, from my contact list, to my personal emails, to my phone's location, my calendar and my purchase history.

I no more trust the AI "morality" pundits than I trust the (well meaning, but mis-guided, IMO) visionaries of the internet's early days (and, yes, you can count me among those ranks).

Re: Artificial Morality

#4
In my experience, the AI Safety people are less concerned with a nebulous "morality", and more concerned with practical things like making AI self-improve slowly enough that we can catch it before it's a runaway process; or making AI not think in ways where it imagining torturing people means there's an actual ephemeral consciousness experiencing the qualia of being tortured. Engineering stuff, that happens to interact with morality... in about the same way that genetic engineering could be said to interact with the morality of the resulting organism.

Re: Artificial Morality

#5
post #3

Interesting read, and some of it rings true for me, but the article is a little bland. A parallel observation: In the "old days" of the internet, the shining new capability of connecting computers, sharing documents, web pages, software, messages, opinions, and, of course, pornography, the feeling of the day was one of betterment. The network would allow for up-turning out-dated businesses and processes of the past,…

I personally think "information wants to be free" (as in no money) is a major cause for why the Internet went so bad in so many ways. Since everything has to be free, the only possible business models are those that revolve around monetizing the user or are otherwise deceptive and indirect.

This created and bootstrapped the whole surveillance capitalism and "adtech" industry. Instead of paying for information we have people paying to manipulate us via free media built to be addictive.

I'm sure some of this would have happened had the Internet possessed a payment mechanism and people willing to pay for stuff, but it would not have become the dominant model for everything nor as pervasive.

Re: Artificial Morality

#6
> Technological proliferation is not a list of principles. It is a deep, multivalent historical process with many radically different stakeholders over many different time-scales. People who invent technology never get to set the rules for what is done with it

Well said. Pessimism is a reasonable reaction to this sweeping line, but I offer a quick summary of what I hope is non-naive optimism:

1) Problem: When we think technology is neutral, we miss how it creates niches outside our intended design and social/political constraints, since the environment of economics thwarts all. We have agency as individuals, yes, but the environment rewards and select for any uses of the technology which yield advantage. “If you incentivize something, it will happen.”

2) Solution?: Nobody fucking knows. But “Game ~B” is what people are calling a nascent research effort to identify what attributes a more cohesive civilization must have to allow better collective “sense-making” and “choice-making” so we may become capable of directing technology instead of leaving it to the emergent dynamics of hapless competition. What's also interesting are the considerations for employing antifragile, transitionary social structures that can thrive in our current entrenched “Game A” dynamics to plant said attributes. Gotta change the underlying rules instead of designing atop those which are broken.

3) Future Ethics: I've also seen some excitement about a so-called non-relativistic ethical framework within Game~B, called The Immanent Metaphysics. It claims to be commensurable with — but not derivable from — science, rigorously formalizing intuitive ethical principles, to at least create a consistent grounding for making effective ethical choices.[1] The hope is to better inform (but not determine) our use of technology after we step into a more coherent phase of civilization. Tech can NOT be put back in the bag, so we must develop our wisdom to carefully wield the godlike powers they give, which we are currently making a mess of.

[1] only a few people currently understand the dense framework, but I'm currently working through it and may be able to offer a summary of what I know so far here. neat stuff

Re: Artificial Morality

#7
This article has a very valid explanation of what the actual instruments of motif are. Maybe the valid excuse is not working on the drum end. Nothing to be inspired about if you can't read your own writing.

Re: Artificial Morality

#8
post #5
post #3

Interesting read, and some of it rings true for me, but the article is a little bland. A parallel observation: In the "old days" of the internet, the shining new capability of connecting computers, sharing documents, web pages, software, messages, opinions, and, of course, pornography, the feeling of the day was one of betterment. The network would allow for up-turning out-dated businesses and processes of the past,…

I personally think "information wants to be free" (as in no money) is a major cause for why the Internet went so bad in so many ways. Since everything has to be free, the only possible business models are those that revolve around monetizing the user or are otherwise deceptive and indirect. This created and bootstrapped the whole surveillance capitalism and "adtech" industry. Instead of paying for information we have…

But because there's a race to the bottom, and information is duplicated with marginal values near zero, sites which were free and didn't require monetization would squash sites that did over time.

I see convergent evolution towards ad networks/data brokers, monthly payment walled gardens, and crowdfunding.

Re: Artificial Morality

#9
post #5
post #3

Interesting read, and some of it rings true for me, but the article is a little bland. A parallel observation: In the "old days" of the internet, the shining new capability of connecting computers, sharing documents, web pages, software, messages, opinions, and, of course, pornography, the feeling of the day was one of betterment. The network would allow for up-turning out-dated businesses and processes of the past,…

I personally think "information wants to be free" (as in no money) is a major cause for why the Internet went so bad in so many ways. Since everything has to be free, the only possible business models are those that revolve around monetizing the user or are otherwise deceptive and indirect. This created and bootstrapped the whole surveillance capitalism and "adtech" industry. Instead of paying for information we have…

Didn’t that happen because advertisers (those who create and sell products) realized that their exact target group is right there on the internet? How could monetizing the access prevent that, assuming similar growth?

Re: Artificial Morality

#10
post #5
post #3

Interesting read, and some of it rings true for me, but the article is a little bland. A parallel observation: In the "old days" of the internet, the shining new capability of connecting computers, sharing documents, web pages, software, messages, opinions, and, of course, pornography, the feeling of the day was one of betterment. The network would allow for up-turning out-dated businesses and processes of the past,…

I personally think "information wants to be free" (as in no money) is a major cause for why the Internet went so bad in so many ways. Since everything has to be free, the only possible business models are those that revolve around monetizing the user or are otherwise deceptive and indirect. This created and bootstrapped the whole surveillance capitalism and "adtech" industry. Instead of paying for information we have…

I wonder how "pay to view" Internet would've worked. How do you know if the page/site you're going to open will be worth the 0.05 cents? There are/were kids in Macedonia who made fake news sites to make money from Google ads: https://www.wired.com/2017/02/veles-macedonia-fake-news/ , imagine that sort of behavior minus the G-middleman.

Could they have built an Internet where there was a system to claim refunds, with a "judge" who would decide? Could there have been a rating system ("90 out of 154 visitors said the information on this page was worth the money"), and how could that have been abused?

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