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The Cathedral and the Bizarre

marktarver.com

1–10 of 130 posts

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#2
>...an article puts the abandonment rate of open source projects on Github at about 98% - meaning that there is no activity on 98% of projects after a year [0]. This has coined a phrase - abandonware.

I'm not a programmer, I'm a researcher. Let me tell you a fact: about 100% of research articles are not updated.

Somehow the link [0] cited in the article makes an indirect similar point, but what's wrong with programs which are not updated? After all there is a (small) group of people who keep telling that programs are the next level in mathematics, (ideally they are) better than proofs.

[0] https://www.techrepublic.com/article/open-source-failure-is-...

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#3
Lots of proprietary software are abandoned & unmaintained on old storage devices, the statistic about abandoned software on Github is meaningless.

On quality: quality is very suggestive. Quality changes if you factor in questions such as: Does it run well on low-end devices, does it track you, will it still open your files in 10 years, will the company still exist in 10 years, does it work well on many platforms, can it be automated, etc.

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#4
there's a lot of nits to pick about this essay, but the real punchline is that corporations have reaped the profits from open source software, far more than any developers do directly, and that claim seems hard to dispute.

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#6
I have like 30 projects on github, I don't expect any of them to really go anywhere, it's just where I put stuff when I'm playing with a new concept.

There are ~3 projects that I would have actually have liked to go somewhere, real projects not toys, that I have abandoned.

So that "98% of projects" statistic is fair, but I think those numbers would be looking a lot better if you accounted for the fact that github is just a place to throw stuff up. Just because something is on github doesn't mean it's an open source "project".

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#7
The facts as presented by this article do not match the facts I remember. I'm an old fart and was actually alive and active writing software at that time.

The cathedral and the bazaar was not a book, it was an essay. They apparently later turned it into a book but I know nobody who read the book. The essay, in contrast, was read by everybody in the scene.

Here's how I remember it.

Open source has no specific meaning before esr claimed it. And after he claimed it, crucially, open source did not mean you could not charge for the software.

I practice almost no source code was released under non-liberal licenses, but there are some notable exceptions. For example, Microsoft released the source code of the Windows kernel for research use to universities. AFAIK that technically means Windows is open source.

esr was not against releasing source code under non-liberal licenses. He was just convinced those would not stand a chance against code released under liberal licenses. Time has proven him right, I would say.

Also this article misses the point, I think. Open source was not meant to define or enshrine a methodology. It was coined because at the time people felt that the free software movement was holding itself back in the fight against Microsoft (google "halloween documents" to get more insight into esr's struggle against Microsoft) because it sounded like you could not make money with it. Also because the GNU General Public License said if you make changes to a piece of GPL code, the result must also be under the GPL. So in a sense GPL actually did impede commercial exploitation of free software.

At the time many libertarians (like esr) felt that the market would solve this if you just let it, and software is not the place to fight ideological wars about the freedom of software.

I'm just paraphrasing the arguments here as I understood them. Personally I come down on the pro-GPL side of the aisle.

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#8
A main point of this seems to be that most projects on github are abandoned.

What a stupid comparison. That would be like listing all the commercial projects that go out of bussiness, or dont even progress far enough to get funding in the first place, and saying closed source model is a failure because most closed source projects fail.

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#9
post #2

>...an article puts the abandonment rate of open source projects on Github at about 98% - meaning that there is no activity on 98% of projects after a year [0]. This has coined a phrase - abandonware. I'm not a programmer, I'm a researcher. Let me tell you a fact: about 100% of research articles are not updated. Somehow the link [0] cited in the article makes an indirect similar point, but what's wrong with programs…

Moreover he's using the large amount of wreckage to argue that the Darwinian process of selecting "category killers" isn't working, which is completely backwards.

If "category killer" is a winner-take-all competition, then there are going to be a vast number of losers, and we do see a vast number of unmaintained projects. It's just that no one is bothering to remove them from view when they're defeated.

Re: The Cathedral and the Bizarre

#10
post #2

>...an article puts the abandonment rate of open source projects on Github at about 98% - meaning that there is no activity on 98% of projects after a year [0]. This has coined a phrase - abandonware. I'm not a programmer, I'm a researcher. Let me tell you a fact: about 100% of research articles are not updated. Somehow the link [0] cited in the article makes an indirect similar point, but what's wrong with programs…

I thought proofs and programs were the same thing
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