Live data from Hacker News

Building AI that can master complex cooperative games with hidden information

ai.facebook.com

1–10 of 29 posts

Re: Building AI that can master complex cooperative games with hidden information

#2
they (basically) applied the ideas from a bot that plays poker to another game. it's interesting work, though perhaps not groundbreaking.

This idea of selfplay + counterfactual regret minimization does seem to be the superior way to solve game theoretic problems. Identifying valuable game theoretic problems remains a challenge...

Re: Building AI that can master complex cooperative games with hidden information

#4
post #2

they (basically) applied the ideas from a bot that plays poker to another game. it's interesting work, though perhaps not groundbreaking. This idea of selfplay + counterfactual regret minimization does seem to be the superior way to solve game theoretic problems. Identifying valuable game theoretic problems remains a challenge...

The search algorithm shares a lot in common with our Pluribus poker AI (https://ai.facebook.com/blog/pluribus-first-ai-to-beat-pros-...), but we added "retrospective belief updates" which makes it way more scalable. We also didn't use counterfactual regret minimization (CFR) because in cooperative games you want to be as predictable as possible, whereas CFR helps make you unpredictable in a balanced way (useful in poker).

The most surprising takeaway is just how effective search was. People were viewing Hanabi as a reinforcement learning challenge, but we showed that adding even a simple search algorithm can lead to larger gains than any existing deep RL algorithm could achieve. Of course, search and RL are completely compatible, so you can combine them to get the best of both worlds, but I think a lot of researchers underestimated the value of search.

Re: Building AI that can master complex cooperative games with hidden information

#5

Hi! I'm one of the authors on the paper. We'd be happy to answer any questions. Ask us anything!

Hey Noam, this is some great work; I'll need to sit down and give the paper a deeper read. Also, the visualizations on this blog post are incredible.

I saw a talk on the Libratus agent a while back, and one of the most interesting takeaways was that the behavior of the bot had already started to impact the professional players, who now spontaneously bet large amounts to force other players out of a hand. Were there any behaviors your agent demonstrated that surprised you in the same way? What insights might we draw from this cooperative AI system that may have more general applicability to other planning domains?

Re: Building AI that can master complex cooperative games with hidden information

#6
post #2

they (basically) applied the ideas from a bot that plays poker to another game. it's interesting work, though perhaps not groundbreaking. This idea of selfplay + counterfactual regret minimization does seem to be the superior way to solve game theoretic problems. Identifying valuable game theoretic problems remains a challenge...

Hanabi definitely has traits involving theory of mind that I've not seen present in other games.

For example, I've played Hanabi with 3+ players where the person before me deliberately gave a misleading hint to the person after me. For example, "this is your only blue card" indicating a blue 5 even though only blue 1-3 have been played. They were counting on me to anticipate that the mislead person was now very likely to waste that valuable card & realize that I could only reasonably avert that misplay by playing a blue 4, which is how I came to realize that I must be holding a blue 4.

Perhaps that depth of theory of mind can be useful in poker, but I must confess that I'm not playing poker at a level where it'd be helpful.

Re: Building AI that can master complex cooperative games with hidden information

#7

Hi! I'm one of the authors on the paper. We'd be happy to answer any questions. Ask us anything!

Can you come back in a day or so and answer some questions? I, like others, need some time to digest it.

Re: Building AI that can master complex cooperative games with hidden information

#8
post #5

Hi! I'm one of the authors on the paper. We'd be happy to answer any questions. Ask us anything!

Hey Noam, this is some great work; I'll need to sit down and give the paper a deeper read. Also, the visualizations on this blog post are incredible. I saw a talk on the Libratus agent a while back, and one of the most interesting takeaways was that the behavior of the bot had already started to impact the professional players, who now spontaneously bet large amounts to force other players out of a hand. Were there a…

In terms of Hanabi, this bot arrived at conventions that are pretty different from how humans play the game. We invited an advanced Hanabi player to play with the bot and he pointed out a few things in particular that he'd like to start using. For example, humans usually have a rule that if your teammate hints multiple cards of the same color/number, you should play the newest one. The bot uses a more complicated rule: if the card you just picked up was hinted then play that card, otherwise play the oldest hinted card. That gives you way more flexibility to hint playable cards that would otherwise be tough to get played.

I think one important general lesson is that search is really, really important. Deep RL algorithms are making huge advancements, but Deep RL alone can't reach superhuman performance in Go or poker with search. Here, too, we see that search was the key to conquering this game, and I think that will hold true in more complex real-world settings as well. Figuring out how to extend search to more complex real-world settings will be a challenge, but it's one worth pursuing.

Re: Building AI that can master complex cooperative games with hidden information

#9

Hi! I'm one of the authors on the paper. We'd be happy to answer any questions. Ask us anything!

Can you come back in a day or so and answer some questions? I, like others, need some time to digest it.

Definitely!

Re: Building AI that can master complex cooperative games with hidden information

#10
If you're wondering why this is interesting, games that AIs excel at like chess/checkers/go are all two-player, zero-sum, perfect-information (everyone knows everything), deterministic games, so you can exactly predict your opponents behavior by simulating "what would I do if I were them, and trying to make me lose". The only real hard problem in this space is extreme branching factors.

Everything gets vastly more complicated once you break any of those rules: non-zero sum games create a prisoner's dilemma cooperate/defect dynamic, every three or more player game is non-zero sum (and exponentially more for every player you add), hidden information forces you to manage how much you reveal to your opponent and requires you to simulate multiple "alternate futures" based on things you learn after making a decision, and randomness is equivalent to an extra player that makes irrational unpredictable moves.

Games like that are vastly closer to the messy real world than the computationally expensive but near-ideal world of games like go, and they're much more of an open problem.

Post reply on HN