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Ask HN: Do you feel the quality of SWE has gone down?

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Ask HN: Do you feel the quality of SWE has gone down?

#1
It feels like a lot engineers now days don't seem to have a good cs background. They don't seem to understand things like cache, paging, virtual memory,cpu pipelines, algorithms or other things pretty important to CS.

I know we have a lot of bootcamps and people are joining because it pays decently, but is this necessarily a good thing for the industry?

When we have the next industry crash (.com crash) will these people stick around?

Re: Ask HN: Do you feel the quality of SWE has gone down?

#2
> When we have the next industry crash (.com crash) will these people stick around?

I feel like the people who jumped into boot camps to make a quick buck will move on to the next hot thing

I'd like to think that the people who are in the industry because they actually enjoy the challenges and problem solving will stick around

Re: Ask HN: Do you feel the quality of SWE has gone down?

#4
It looks like these things don't matter anymore for a lot of companies or at least they are not valued. Creating something that works somewhat in the smallest amount of time possible to get the customer to pay and that management can check the crosses in the excel sheet.

The Java app at my current company does 23k database queries uncached for a directory listing with 100 files in a folder. There are two devs at work there for years, nobody bothered to look up the rather well documented api docs that just use a single query for that task from the upstream software we use.

Personally I'm frustrated and I'm looking to learning more CS to get a job that values quality over quantity.

Re: Ask HN: Do you feel the quality of SWE has gone down?

#5
I agree that the developers we hire nowadays don’t know as much about virtual memory, CPU pipelines etc. But they don’t need to.

I feel that the Open Source ecosystem has made building software a lot easier.

Also, the sheer number of software engineers have gone up. 20 years ago those who chose to become software engineers where often very passionate about it. Today, it’s like any other trade, you get a larger variety of people.

My last point is that organisations have also matured and know more about what to expect from software engineers. When I started programming professionally I had a lot more time to finish any given feature, today everything needs to get out the door faster.

Overall, I think we are building better software today.

Re: Ask HN: Do you feel the quality of SWE has gone down?

#6
I've worked on a lot of old code bases that were built by this previous generation of engineers, and let me tell you, their code was awful. Software engineering has learned a lot over the last decade.

Sure there are some things that aren't emphasised as much but most of them aren't super useful. JavaScript, css, and mobile development are way more useful today than algorithms, cpu pipelines etc...

Most of the last round of unicorns you could build without any of the items you mentioned, but you couldn't even get started without an understanding of modern web or mobile development.

This is coming from someone who is by no means an expert on any of those things but took a bunch of courses on them in college and have only used them a handful of times in the last decade of professional software development to eek out very small performance improvements.

Re: Ask HN: Do you feel the quality of SWE has gone down?

#8
Being somewhat proficent at both sides of CS - practical and theoretical requires a lot of effort and no school is going to teach it.

Doing constant progress (learning) both - modern and everyday useful things meanwhile not giving up at things like security, protocols, lower level stuff, hardware requires a lot of discipline.

Re: Ask HN: Do you feel the quality of SWE has gone down?

#9
A lot of the things you mentioned are abstracted away from most Software Engineers nowadays. Of course it's good to know how these things work, but for most SWE jobs it is not necessary to have a strong grasp of them. The world of software has grown tremendously, many companies need rather simple software that is built with high level frameworks and tools. On the other hand there are still people building compilers, game engines, routing algorithms or work on embedded systems where all the things you mentioned are much more important.
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