‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups
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Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups
#2The author believes working as a software engineer in a startup is fine so long as you have the title "product engineer" rather than "software engineer", as if your job title actually matters.
Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups
#3But what if I want to join a startup so I can build out the stack of my dreams while accomplishing whatever business goals are set?
I’m assuming if you _join_ a startup, rather then creating or co-founding one, there’s already a product person on board.
Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups
#4The author believes working as a software engineer in a startup is fine so long as you have the title "product engineer" rather than "software engineer", as if your job title actually matters.
This is an uncharitable reading of the article. They aren’t just suggesting a different title - they’re suggesting doing a different job - shaping the product rather than just implementing it.
Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups
#5The author believes working as a software engineer in a startup is fine so long as you have the title "product engineer" rather than "software engineer", as if your job title actually matters.
This is an uncharitable reading of the article. They aren’t just suggesting a different title - they’re suggesting doing a different job - shaping the product rather than just implementing it.
onion2k was simply pointing out that titles are mostly rubbish. What people do is frequently quite different than their title. What the article was summing up and getting to with a little bit of a click-bait title was that when working in a startup you, as a software engineer (or whatever you prefer to be called), need to prioritize the customer and how the product solves the customers needs. Obviously the article goes into more detail.
Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups
#6If everyone follows this advice then who will implement the system? Outsource to external professional firms? We already outsource to accountants, lawyers, ad agencies etc.
Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups
#7I worked at a startup as the first Dev, it was a shock for me having to now consider things like:
* What company laptops to buy?
* Assess the merits of AWS and GCP and make a decision.
* Divine an architecture that will get the product to the customers ASAP but will last at least a year with growth before needing a major rethink.
* Present to customers, board members and potential investors about the tech.
Eventually I was coding around 60% and doing these other things around 40% of my time.
I guess this would be what a CTO does, so it was a great taster for me however I did get burned out with it after a year (plus working in London was taking its toll as well).
For any developer who is quite senior, I would recommend trying it. I learned a lot about myself.
Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups
#8Last few years developers grew a weird attitude towards work and it's really strange.
When you work for someone or with someone, you get paid to do your job that includes mainly _writing_code_ and maybe _product_decisions_ and _business_thinking_, etc.., but first don't hate doing your job!
I will ask the author, If you started a business, what would you do? wouldn't you do everything you mentioned there? this one sided-view articles are not interesting views IMO.
Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups
#9Fyi.... This type of advice has been given in many essays using different words. Probably the one that HN is most familiar with is "Don't Call Yourself A Programmer,"[0]. Another variation on the same theme "avoid being paid for code"[1].
tldr: try not to be just a "code monkey" but shift your perspective up the value hierarchy so you can provide business solutions. Try not to be an interchangeable and commoditized "cog in the wheel".
IMO, what this essay leaves out is that many people self-select into "product manager" type roles because that's more interesting and fulfilling than coding all day long. On the other hand, other types of programmers prefer to stay "heads down" and just code instead of interfacing with customers.
[0] https://hn.algolia.com/?query=don%27t%20call%20yourself%20a%...
Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups
#10If everyone follows this advice then who will implement the system? Outsource to external professional firms? We already outsource to accountants, lawyers, ad agencies etc.
Cheap labour and automating/using what is already out there. That's how the cycle goes, eventually writing the code will be a low paying factory job. Our industry is extremely welcome to new comers and not protecting it like doctors etc do.