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Honeybees are found to interact with Quantum fields

neuroquantology.com

1–10 of 32 posts

Re: Honeybees are found to interact with Quantum fields

#4
Thank you for this article. Just the thing to get my brain going after the indulgences of the weekend.

It also knocks me flat to contemplate the ideas this intriguing article generates. It does good to be staggered by something new once in a while: it keeps complacency at bay.

Re: Honeybees are found to interact with Quantum fields

#7
According only to that linked article, there are two separate claims:

1. Bee dances are based on 2-dimensional projections of 6-dimensional flag manifolds.

2. Bees detect quark quantum fields, hypothesized because they can also be described as flag manifolds.

The first claim seems to be much more plausible and interesting to me.

I do not really understand flag manifolds, but are they computationally difficult to project to 2D?

Re: Honeybees are found to interact with Quantum fields

#8
I'll repost my comment from the last version of this article, since I don't think any new developments have invalidated it.

This connection to QFT is almost surely nonsense. The flag manifold in question comes from matrix groups; basically, consider some subset of 3x3 matrices which satisfy a certain property. I.e., certain types of transformations of a 3d space. While the space of 3x3 matrices has 3x3=9 dimensions, subsets can have fewer dimensions (in this case, 6).

The two-dimensional projections she discovered are functions of the 6 dimensional matrices. So here is the occams razor explanation for what is happening. Inside the bee's head is an ODE (ordinary differential equation) solver, basically an analog computer. Just think of the ODE solver as a complicated timer, but with output depending on both time and some hidden variable. These are common objects in biology, and don't require many neurons.

The output of the ODE solver is wired to some neurons which reduce 6 variables to 2, according to the formula she discovered.

This is a fantastic discovery, a triumph of applied math. But the connection to QFT is almost surely coincidence: QFT uses symmetries of matrix groups over 3 dimensions, and the bee (which lives in 3 dimensions) also does. This phenomenon is called universality. Certain objects repeat across diverse areas simply because it is the only logical way (or the most common logical way) that things could happen.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=391396

Re: Honeybees are found to interact with Quantum fields

#9

I'll repost my comment from the last version of this article, since I don't think any new developments have invalidated it. This connection to QFT is almost surely nonsense. The flag manifold in question comes from matrix groups; basically, consider some subset of 3x3 matrices which satisfy a certain property. I.e., certain types of transformations of a 3d space. While the space of 3x3 matrices has 3x3=9 dimensions,…

That made me think more than the article. Why anyone would assume that I find it strange that the articles subject would would be so good at math and yet so willing to disregard Occam's razor. It is a good example of how peoples desires shape their thinking.

Re: Honeybees are found to interact with Quantum fields

#10
post #7

According only to that linked article, there are two separate claims: 1. Bee dances are based on 2-dimensional projections of 6-dimensional flag manifolds. 2. Bees detect quark quantum fields, hypothesized because they can also be described as flag manifolds. The first claim seems to be much more plausible and interesting to me. I do not really understand flag manifolds, but are they computationally difficult to proj…

I do not really understand flag manifolds, but are they computationally difficult to project to 2D?

Not for the purposes of this article. It might be computationally difficult to predict the progress of a dance as t -> infinity (to answer this question, I'd need to know more about flag manifolds), but it's unlikely that bees solve that problem.

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