The Trans History of the Wild West
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The Trans History of the Wild West
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Re: The Trans History of the Wild West
#2I always get so confused when 'they' is used for a single person.
Is there any alternative? Everything seems to sound silly
Re: The Trans History of the Wild West
#3I always get so confused when 'they' is used for a single person. Is there any alternative? Everything seems to sound silly
You get confused because you're not used to it. It gets less confusing the more you see it used. There are some cases where it introduces unnecessary confusion but the same is true for any other pronoun.
There are some proposed non-binary or gender neutral pronouns but none of them seem to be in use much.
Re: The Trans History of the Wild West
#4I always get so confused when 'they' is used for a single person. Is there any alternative? Everything seems to sound silly
Considering singular they has been in common use for centuries[0], changing it now would be an uphill struggle. People have used words like "ze" but they haven't caught on.
[0] https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they...
Re: The Trans History of the Wild West
#5I always get so confused when 'they' is used for a single person. Is there any alternative? Everything seems to sound silly
It's kind of odd, because people seem to accept singular "they" for strangers, but not once there's a name.
If I say: "I bumped into a stranger on the street and trod on their toes, apologised to them, and they apologised to me" - generally (in normal spoken conversation, not here when we're paying attention) people don't care. Using singular "they" for strangers is pretty common, and hundreds and hundreds of years old.
The problem comes when we give someone a name. If I say: "I bumped into Julie on the street and trod on their toes, apologised to them, and they apologised to me", people might think it sounds odd (if they're not used to it).
It's as if we have an order/hierarchy in which we expect to learn information about people. Like, by the time we know someone's name, we assume we should already have been told their gender, and we confused if hasn't happened yet.
Re: The Trans History of the Wild West
#6I always get so confused when 'they' is used for a single person. Is there any alternative? Everything seems to sound silly
It's perfectly standard. You're probably already accustomed to using it for a person whose identity you don't know, unless you walk around saying things like "I hope this person comes back to get his or her umbrella."
Re: The Trans History of the Wild West
#7I always get so confused when 'they' is used for a single person. Is there any alternative? Everything seems to sound silly
You don't. It is standard English, and you and people around you use it all the time.
Re: The Trans History of the Wild West
#8I always get so confused when 'they' is used for a single person. Is there any alternative? Everything seems to sound silly
It's kind of odd, because people seem to accept singular "they" for strangers, but not once there's a name. If I say: "I bumped into a stranger on the street and trod on their toes, apologised to them, and they apologised to me" - generally (in normal spoken conversation, not here when we're paying attention) people don't care. Using singular "they" for strangers is pretty common, and hundreds and hundreds of years o…
I would say it’s more that “they” is used for individuals when the subject is specified previously in the sentence or conversation. In your example sentence, “the stranger” clarifies this. If the sentence were simply “They bumped into me on the street.” it is unclear if the subject is singular or plural.
Re: The Trans History of the Wild West
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's kind of odd, because people seem to accept singular "they" for strangers, but not once there's a name. If I say: "I bumped into a stranger on the street and trod on their toes, apologised to them, and they apologised to me" - generally (in normal spoken conversation, not here when we're paying attention) people don't care. Using singular "they" for strangers is pretty common, and hundreds and hundreds of years o…
I would say it’s more that “they” is used for individuals when the subject is specified previously in the sentence or conversation. In your example sentence, “the stranger” clarifies this. If the sentence were simply “They bumped into me on the street.” it is unclear if the subject is singular or plural.
In my second example, I used "Julie" instead of "a stranger". The subject is specified in exactly the same way, but people might find "they" more surprising in that case.
Some people might even take it as a potential clue that Julie could be non-binary, because of how much we expect gender-matched pronouns at that point. (Not saying they should, just that they might.)
Re: The Trans History of the Wild West
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would say it’s more that “they” is used for individuals when the subject is specified previously in the sentence or conversation. In your example sentence, “the stranger” clarifies this. If the sentence were simply “They bumped into me on the street.” it is unclear if the subject is singular or plural.
In my second example, I used "Julie" instead of "a stranger". The subject is specified in exactly the same way, but people might find "they" more surprising in that case. Some people might even take it as a potential clue that Julie could be non-binary, because of how much we expect gender-matched pronouns at that point. (Not saying they should, just that they might.)
Ah yes, my bad, you are correct. I meant to say that it's not simply that the distinction is between "named individual" and "stranger" but is more complex.
It seems like "they" is used 'correctly' for a singular subject when the subject has been previously referred to, but hasn't been given a proper name. But I'm sure a linguist has studied this in further detail.