The Evolution of Lisp (1993) [pdf]
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The Evolution of Lisp (1993) [pdf]
1–10 of 41 posts
Re: The Evolution of Lisp (1993) [pdf]
#2Nice discussion starting around page 23 discussing how the end of / limitations of the PDP-10 led to an explosion of innovation including the development of continuations (still so unfamiliar back in 1993 that they had to be explained in simple language).
Re: The Evolution of Lisp (1993) [pdf]
#3I’ve always thought it unfortunate that fexprs were dropped for macros in lisp. For a language that touts homoiconicity and first class functions/objects, it feels strange that macros aren’t first class.
My understanding is that fexprs have some perfomance problems over macros, but I’m not really sure why or if the state of the art has advanced since then.
A really interesting evolution of lisp is Shen. The license is terrible and I seriously doubt it will ever achieve widespread use. And while the idea of a kernel lisp sounds great, in practice I doubt that it actually works.
The performance trade-offs that you’re going to need to make become very unclear when you have a language that can run on A python, CL, js, or whatever runtime. The JVM is successful because it unifies language and implementation, instead of fragmenting it further like Shen does.
Racket is the clear horse to pick in this race, I think. Hopefully Racket on Chez will improve the performance to close to that of native binaries. If so, I really think that it would be the last piece of the puzzle.
Re: The Evolution of Lisp (1993) [pdf]
#4To refresh your ideas on CL (I know I needed it): https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl There may be more libraries than you think. Also recently some usual complaints have been fixed:
- hard to set up environment ? -> http://portacle.github.io/ There's also Lem, and Atom is getting good. https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-support.ht...
- horrible website ? http://common-lisp.net/ (they fixed it last year) Also http://lisp-lang.org/
- no cross-platform, featureful GUI library ? -> https://github.com/lispnik/iup/ (alpha) There's also Qtools for Qt4. And Ltk, but Tk lacks widgets.
- no object-oriented, generic math or equality operators ? -> https://github.com/alex-gutev/generic-cl/
- no decent library for numerical computing ? -> https://github.com/numcl/numcl
- waiting one month to publish your library into Quicklisp is too much ? -> http://ultralisp.org/
- lack of online beginner friendly documentation ? -> https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/
Re: The Evolution of Lisp (1993) [pdf]
#5To refresh your ideas on CL (I know I needed it): https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl There may be more libraries than you think. Also recently some usual complaints have been fixed: - hard to set up environment ? -> http://portacle.github.io/ There's also Lem, and Atom is getting good. https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-support.ht... - horrible website ? http://common-lisp.net/ (they fixed it l…
The lack of a really good open source IDE or IDE plugin is a real road block for a number of people. Pointing folks to Emacs or an Emacs derivative is is not the solution. I know there is a couple of IDE plugins for Clojure and I think it would help if there were similar options for Common Lisp.
I know there used to be a plugin for Eclipse (Cusp) but that appears to have died.
Re: The Evolution of Lisp (1993) [pdf]
#6I’ve always thought it unfortunate that fexprs were dropped for macros in lisp. For a language that touts homoiconicity and first class functions/objects, it feels strange that macros aren’t first class. My understanding is that fexprs have some perfomance problems over macros, but I’m not really sure why or if the state of the art has advanced since then. A really interesting evolution of lisp is Shen. The license i…
> A really interesting evolution of lisp is Shen. The license is terrible
BSD 3-clause: https://github.com/Shen-Language/shen-sources/blob/master/LI...
Of course that's not the end of the story, and I invite anyone curious to both read more, and to not be dissuaded by a lisper's funny opinions. There (Naggum, Hoyte, Stanislav) are a lot of lispers with funny opinions.
And one more point, not directed at you but to anyone who has strongly negative opinions about Shen's licensing: In this case I'll strongly defend Mark Tarver, who first had a nonstandard license. Then people voiced disapproval. Then he BSD'd it, and made a separate closed-source version. And still we have people saying "the license is terrible." You can get Shen 21 right now under the BSD license, _because you asked for it_ (not mruts in particular). Don't punish people for doing what you ask them to do! (not mruts in particular).
Re: The Evolution of Lisp (1993) [pdf]
#7To refresh your ideas on CL (I know I needed it): https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl There may be more libraries than you think. Also recently some usual complaints have been fixed: - hard to set up environment ? -> http://portacle.github.io/ There's also Lem, and Atom is getting good. https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-support.ht... - horrible website ? http://common-lisp.net/ (they fixed it l…
The lack of a really good open source IDE or IDE plugin is a real road block for a number of people. Pointing folks to Emacs or an Emacs derivative is is not the solution. I know there is a couple of IDE plugins for Clojure and I think it would help if there were similar options for Common Lisp. I know there used to be a plugin for Eclipse (Cusp) but that appears to have died.
why is emacs not a solution? the link provided by parent is excellent beginner friendly environment ( http://portacle.github.io/).
Re: The Evolution of Lisp (1993) [pdf]
#8To refresh your ideas on CL (I know I needed it): https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl There may be more libraries than you think. Also recently some usual complaints have been fixed: - hard to set up environment ? -> http://portacle.github.io/ There's also Lem, and Atom is getting good. https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-support.ht... - horrible website ? http://common-lisp.net/ (they fixed it l…
The lack of a really good open source IDE or IDE plugin is a real road block for a number of people. Pointing folks to Emacs or an Emacs derivative is is not the solution. I know there is a couple of IDE plugins for Clojure and I think it would help if there were similar options for Common Lisp. I know there used to be a plugin for Eclipse (Cusp) but that appears to have died.
See the "editor-support" link: there's the Dandelion plugin for Eclipse, although basic; I said Atom support is getting very good. There's Vim, a basic plugin for VS Code, and Lem, a self-contained editor ready to use for CL and many other languages (though it is "emacsy", same keybindings by default, vim-mode included). There's a Jupyter kernel and a terminal-friendly ipython-like repl.
Re: The Evolution of Lisp (1993) [pdf]
#9I’ve always thought it unfortunate that fexprs were dropped for macros in lisp. For a language that touts homoiconicity and first class functions/objects, it feels strange that macros aren’t first class. My understanding is that fexprs have some perfomance problems over macros, but I’m not really sure why or if the state of the art has advanced since then. A really interesting evolution of lisp is Shen. The license i…
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Re: The Evolution of Lisp (1993) [pdf]
#10To refresh your ideas on CL (I know I needed it): https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl There may be more libraries than you think. Also recently some usual complaints have been fixed: - hard to set up environment ? -> http://portacle.github.io/ There's also Lem, and Atom is getting good. https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-support.ht... - horrible website ? http://common-lisp.net/ (they fixed it l…
The lack of a really good open source IDE or IDE plugin is a real road block for a number of people. Pointing folks to Emacs or an Emacs derivative is is not the solution. I know there is a couple of IDE plugins for Clojure and I think it would help if there were similar options for Common Lisp. I know there used to be a plugin for Eclipse (Cusp) but that appears to have died.
On my computers I use a commercial system with its own editor (Mac/Linux) and a free one (Clozure CL on Mac), also with its own editor.