If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#1

Post by hbgb » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?
nytimes.com

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#2

Post by ardit33 » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 5:19 PM UTC

Heating your home "ruins" the world. You probably wont die at 40*F inside your home, but it sure would suck living that type winter. So does cooling it during the summer, so do many other modern amenities, etc...

At some point it begs the question: Is the world you are preserving worth living?

Sure, there are billions of people that don't have any of these amenities in life, but it is mostly by necessity and they can't afford any better...

So, is travel necessary? No. Is traveling something you should feel guilty about, probably not.

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#3

Post by ctlby » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 5:24 PM UTC

If we take climate change activists at their word, the answer is a resounding YES. There is a full-blown crisis brewing, one that can only be resolved with massive social changes ("if everyone does a little, we’ll achieve only a little" [1]). The NYT should be pushing much more draconian measures.

[1] https://www.withouthotair.com/c1/page_3.shtml

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#4

Post by ve55 » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 5:24 PM UTC

No.

Leading a completely utilitarian life based only on the metric of estimating the emissions produced by your actions (and then, only first-order effects) is not only completely infeasible, but is also not a solution to global warming.

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#5

Post by geff82 » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 5:26 PM UTC

The recent argument against traveling is a proxy war. Heating, cooling, electricity and driving are the things that make up 75% of the emissions, plus about 20% for industrial production. All of the points I listed can be replaced by sustainable alternatives TODAY (ok, maybe not all people in one year, but the products are available) without us having to reduce out comfort in a major way. We could travel 5 times more than now when we switched away from technology mostly invented about 120 years ago and still have a better environment.

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#6

Post by eeZah7Ux » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 5:28 PM UTC

Yes.

Consumerism and conspicuous consumption include travel and other services.

You can instead stay home and read a book. Perhaps on a slow, eco-friendly journey every few years.

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#7

Post by kevin_b_er » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 5:28 PM UTC

The Tragedy of the Commons prevent this. You cannot solve it solely by making yourself "use nothing" when others will abuse that to take more for themselves.

It will not solve the problem when the rich have enough resources to do the ruining themselves no matter what you do.

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#8

Post by fastball » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #6

Yes. Consumerism and conspicuous consumption include travel and other services. You can instead stay home and read a book. Perhaps on a slow, eco-friendly journey every few years.

Who is it I'm saving the world for if not myself or my children?

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#9

Post by eafkuor » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

And now I have to feel guilty about this too. What a life :/

Re: If Seeing the World Helps Ruin It, Should We Stay Home?

#10

Post by bubblewrap » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

"But actually this summer, we’re going to Greece"

He does all the calculations, is more informed than the average person, and still decides to just go for it.

This is why the battle against global warming is pointless. Human population explosion (triggered by the invention of agriculture) will simply run its course, and we'll just have to live with whatever world we'll be left with in the end.

Yes, he is buying "offsets" for his family, but most of them are clearly a scam, and he also seems to be aware of that.

Trees take years to grow, and capture carbon in the ground, not in the higher atmosphere. Methane would probably be burned anyway, nice for the operators that the can make some extra bucks selling the "offsets".

As for travel: buy a big TV. There are movies from beautiful places all over the world. Then go swimming in a lake nearby. No need to travel thousands of miles for that.

What is so important about visiting Greece? I live in Europe and I have never been to Greece. Nevertheless, I have some ideas about its culture. I've seen photographs, read the Iliad, talked to Greek people, and so on.