Ask HN: Coping when your client is an asshole?

#1

Post by codinginhell » Tue, May 28, 2019, 6:00 AM UTC

I'm a project manager for a ~60 person software dev firm. One project I'm on is with a large American enterprise, and the product owner and his direct manager are absolute assholes.

I've got 8 developers that I try to shield from accusatory questions and extremely aggressive and borderline abusive behaviour. In the beginning we we all agreed not to take anything personally and to let it just roll off the back. We agreed to tighten up our processes and try to avoid confrontations by being super proactive with all our work, but we're coming close to the launch date, and it's getting worse as more pressure mounts.

Ordinarily, we would have dropped the client by now and refused to put up with the end-justifies-the-means tactics, but unfortunately our company could not survive without this and a handful of other projects we have with this client.

My company is actively looking for new clients so we are not beholden to this one, and my manager is apologetic and tries to run interference when she can, but I'm largely left to my own devices. This is a very high profile project that stands to disrupt its market. It's exciting for them and us. I have to maintain this relationship somehow.

How do you manage your clients who are completely unreasonable, rude, and treat you and your staff extremely poorly?

Re: Ask HN: Coping when your client is an asshole?

#2

Post by slippinjimmy » Tue, May 28, 2019, 6:58 AM UTC

When you look at client cultures, there will be a spectrum. It is vitally important to know you will see a bit of each type: the good, bad, and fucking ugly. Learn to deal with them all. There are some that you are better off breaking ties with: clients who will tie up your resources, wasting too much time and energy.

As to the troublemakers and jerks:

1) To the extent you can, accommdate.

2) Limit contact to the people who can work with them with the least friction.

3) A quality product is the result of process, not something conjured up instantly and perfectly. Work and refine the pricess and make sure the customer understands it.

4) Keep a policy to neither abuse nor take abuse. Reasonable, constructive criticism is one thing; attacking just to enjoy inflicting pain is unacceptable. If they want to piss on something, direct them to the nearest outdoor fire hydrant.

5) If your product and development process is sound, stand your ground. Assert that "business is the persuit of the possible." If the customer wants magic, buy'em tickets to Las Vegas and GTFO business.

6) Increase your customer base so that you are proportionately less exposed to problenatic customers.

7) Train your staff in "people skills" for de-escalating conflict and staying focused on getting the work done.

Re: Ask HN: Coping when your client is an asshole?

#3

Post by WestCoastJustin » Tue, May 28, 2019, 7:01 AM UTC

Maybe exercise the company expense card and start having dinners / drinks with these folks. They might be less assholish if you wine and dine them a little. Normally, I would say fire them but from the sounds of it you are too far gone. Drinks, breaking bread, and having a few laughs might smooth things over. At the very lease you can eat out at some fancy places and tell the folks at work you are smoothing things over. This could be tough if you hate them though.

Re: Ask HN: Coping when your client is an asshole?

#4

Post by green_plains » Tue, May 28, 2019, 7:03 AM UTC

You don't, this is the kind of project which causes "emotional bankruptcy". The company you are working for is defined by the team working there, not by the disruptive projects you make. Especially if you're doing something like consultancy.

I had a similar situation, we needed 1.5 years to fully recover from something like this, people left after the deadline, productivity dropped, everyone was demotivated.

Me and my friend drifted apart because of a project like this, only to build another company in completely different industry together later and properly discuss how emotionally straining the experience was.

Nevertheless all companies are still running and fine, but it's not something that should be treated lightly. Have a serious talk with your manager if this is affecting you and your team. Most likely the team is more valuable than the project by orders of magnitude.

Re: Ask HN: Coping when your client is an asshole?

#5

Post by snori74 » Tue, May 28, 2019, 7:05 AM UTC

Your main point of leverage is always going to be the willingness to drop them. In your case this doesn't appear to be possible, so you have no control. Us non-nasty, reasonable people can't expect to win against people who've been practising this their whole lives.

Suck it up now, but get an iron-clad agreement from your management to never again court or sign up a client unless they're "nice". And bake it into your company culture. Yes this will limit you to only a section of the market, but unless you're realistically looking at "world domination" you can afford to be a bit picky.

Re: Ask HN: Coping when your client is an asshole?

#6

Post by JamesBarney » Tue, May 28, 2019, 7:05 AM UTC

Firstly how are they assholes. Some people will smile and nod and gather evidence to get you fired.

Some will scream and yell all the time but when push comes to shove will act honorably and go to bat for you.

Others are just looking to pin as much stuff on you in order to the cya game.

Also figure out why they're assholes if possible. The solutions are very different if they're assholes because they're boss is an assholes (asshole by proxy). If they're assholes because they just care a lot about the project and are worried/anxious (asshole by circumstance). Or if they're just always an asshole (asshole by nature).

General advice though is document everything, dot every i, and cross every t because shit tends to go sideways when assholes are involved and you don't want to be the one to get screwed.

Re: Ask HN: Coping when your client is an asshole?

#7

Post by raverbashing » Tue, May 28, 2019, 7:08 AM UTC

WestCoastJustin wrote: post #3

Maybe exercise the company expense card and start having dinners / drinks with these folks. They might be less assholish if you wine and dine them a little. Normally, I would say fire them but from the sounds of it you are too far gone. Drinks, breaking bread, and having a few laughs might smooth things over. At the very lease you can eat out at some fancy places and tell the folks at work you are smoothing things ov…

Sounds like a good idea

Another one is, depending on how their team is behaving w.r.t. your team, start pushing some responsibility back

Were they delayed when they shouldn't have been? Is it something on their side that's causing issues?

This needs to be done with some care, but it works. Though your suggestion sounds good and could be used in combination.

Re: Ask HN: Coping when your client is an asshole?

#8

Post by vmurthy » Tue, May 28, 2019, 7:09 AM UTC

Might sound obvious but you'll be surprised how much we resist just airing the issue: Have you tried talking to the person (Product Owner/direct manager) human-to-human? Tell him/her that you are aware how stressful it is for the PO with the impending release. Remind him/her how much better his/her products will be if developers are motivated and work as a team.

“If you would persuade, you must appeal to interest rather than intellect.” – Benjamin Franklin.

Re: Ask HN: Coping when your client is an asshole?

#9

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 28, 2019, 7:10 AM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #7

WestCoastJustin wrote: post #3

Maybe exercise the company expense card and start having dinners / drinks with these folks. They might be less assholish if you wine and dine them a little. Normally, I would say fire them but from the sounds of it you are too far gone. Drinks, breaking bread, and having a few laughs might smooth things over. At the very lease you can eat out at some fancy places and tell the folks at work you are smoothing things ov…

Sounds like a good idea Another one is, depending on how their team is behaving w.r.t. your team, start pushing some responsibility back Were they delayed when they shouldn't have been? Is it something on their side that's causing issues? This needs to be done with some care, but it works. Though your suggestion sounds good and could be used in combination.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Coping when your client is an asshole?

#10

Post by fergie » Tue, May 28, 2019, 7:10 AM UTC

Sadly, this is a pretty typical scenario in consulting. In my own experience, the best and ultimately only thing to do is to be a gentleman as long as you can, and then to walk away once a clients behavior becomes abusive.

You don't say what level your client is in their organisation. If, (as is generally the case with ineffective managers), they themselves have a boss, one of the best ways to address abusive behavior is to withdraw your services, thereby forcing your client's organisation to make a decision about whether to remove them, or force a change in their behavior.

The most important thing a consulting firm has is its reputation. Unsatisfied customers talk to potential customers and dissuade them from entering new contracts. There is a real financial cost to entertaining abusive customers- it is better for all concerned to enforce a code of conduct.