Thoughts on Toxic Masculinity
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Thoughts on Toxic Masculinity
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Re: Thoughts on Toxic Masculinity
#2There was a time when we thought that women were "less than." In many countries, this is still the case. We also thought that black people were "less than" and this isn't the case, either. It's possible (and important) to claim our masculinity and the things that make us male without being a negative factor in society.
We should not be less male, but better males.
Re: Thoughts on Toxic Masculinity
#3Good points here. There is no such thing as "toxic masculinity." There are only individual bad behaviors. Being a male does not automatically condemn one to such bad behaviors. Even the social and cultural norms imposed on men don't require bad behavior. Each person can take individual responsibility for how he wants to present himself. There was a time when we thought that women were "less than." In many countries,…
They kind of sometimes do, though. The items on the "negative" list in the article are often reinforced by cultural pressures and stereotypes associated with masculinity and "manhood."
To simply focus on individual bad behaviors by people who happen to be men is to ignore the societal and cultural weight of masculinity and the negative feedback loops a boy or man can feed upon when finding their identity. These behaviors don't exist in a vacuum, they persist in part because they signal conformity to an outdated template of masculinity.
I'm starting to agree that we shouldn't use the phrase "toxic masculinity," though. Not because it doesn't exist - I think it does - but it seems impossible to use without men getting triggered by it. You're disagreeing with the premise even as most of your comment agrees with what the term describes and what the goal of recognizing it should be.
Re: Thoughts on Toxic Masculinity
#4In my mind, "toxic" is just another epithet used in meaningless and unproductive name-calling. This doesn't spur moral progress, but in fact impedes it.
Name-calling and shaming _never_ help, but sometimes you can put yourself in a state of having a pure heart, talk with kindness to someone who is doing something wrong, and change the world.
Re: Thoughts on Toxic Masculinity
#5Re: Thoughts on Toxic Masculinity
#6The term toxic masculinity is itself sexist. Isn’t that what we’re trying to avoid?
Re: Thoughts on Toxic Masculinity
#7The term toxic masculinity is itself sexist. Isn’t that what we’re trying to avoid?
No, it's not.
Re: Thoughts on Toxic Masculinity
#8The term toxic masculinity is itself sexist. Isn’t that what we’re trying to avoid?
If the term toxic masculinity is sexist, then masculinity, itself, is equally sexist.
Re: Thoughts on Toxic Masculinity
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the term toxic masculinity is sexist, then masculinity, itself, is equally sexist.
Consider that statement with sexes reversed. Is it still true? Because I never hear of women being 'toxic'. The term is just name calling, and has a history of a specific agenda. We can move forward with unsilvered tounges.
"toxic masculinity" isn't calling men toxic, it isn't even calling masculinity toxic, it's referring to a subset of masculine behavior which is harmful both to women and men, but mostly to women. Why would you consider calling women toxic to be the reverse?
Is there such a thing as "toxic femininity?" I don't know, I'm not a woman.
But whether or not there is has no bearing on whether toxic masculinity exists or what it represents. After all, as many people like to point out in discussions of gender, men and women are different, right? So there's no reason to assume the cultures of men and women shouldn't have different pathologies. That's what terms like "masculine" and "feminine" exist to describe.
Re: Thoughts on Toxic Masculinity
#10Good points here. There is no such thing as "toxic masculinity." There are only individual bad behaviors. Being a male does not automatically condemn one to such bad behaviors. Even the social and cultural norms imposed on men don't require bad behavior. Each person can take individual responsibility for how he wants to present himself. There was a time when we thought that women were "less than." In many countries,…
>Even the social and cultural norms imposed on men don't require bad behavior. They kind of sometimes do, though. The items on the "negative" list in the article are often reinforced by cultural pressures and stereotypes associated with masculinity and "manhood." To simply focus on individual bad behaviors by people who happen to be men is to ignore the societal and cultural weight of masculinity and the negative fee…
There are a lot of negative aspects of Muslim faith, terrorism being one, that are reinforced by cultural pressures and stereotypes associated with Muslim faith. To simply focus on individual bad behaviors by people who happen to be Muslims is to ignore the societal and cultural weight of Muslim faith and the negative feedback loops a Muslim can feed upon when finding their identity. They persist in part because they signal conformity to an outdated template of Muslim faith.
But there is a big problem if we use the phrase "toxic Muslim faith". It does not spur moral progress, common understanding, or empathy. It is impossible to use the phrase without Muslims getting triggered by it, even if they agree that terrorism is a real problem among Muslims. A Muslim that hears the word "toxic Muslim faith" will uncritically, and not unjustifiably so in my view, see it as an attack on all Muslims and Islam and not just the subset of negative Muslim behavior and culture among Islam practitioners.