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Ask HN: Elizabeth Holmes has 200 patents – if tech didn't work, why not noticed?

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Ask HN: Elizabeth Holmes has 200 patents – if tech didn't work, why not noticed?

#1
I searched her name on a couple of patent search engines.

Turns out she has around 200 patents (with other people mostly).

So if her tech didn't work, then why didn't people figure it out sooner? Why did it take a journalist from WSJ to find the fraud?

How come some prominent physicist or biologist doing "competition research" didn't declare that the patents were based on bogus claims?

Re: Ask HN: Elizabeth Holmes has 200 patents – if tech didn't work, why not noticed?

#3
Thomas Edison freely admitted most of his 1,093 US patents were for inventions that would never have worked.

Patenting a completely ridiculous and impossible idea is quite straightforward if you know the system and have the money and reputation.

Journalists are notoriously bad at technical due diligence, but the fact is even trained scientists and engineers can be duped, particularly when access is limited.

Having been in a similar situation (not the federal one), where something looked fishy in a company I was involved in (and ended up being revealed as fishier than fish), I wouldn't be at all surprised if it comes out that the patents were fine, the ideas were fine, the talent had the skills, and it would have been less work on everybody's part to actually build it than to lie, cheat, and misrepresent it.

I have never been to or interviewed anywhere more paranoid/aggressively secretive than Theranos, and that includes military bases and classified government installations. This should be the moral of the story: investors should take as a red flag companies that work that hard to show you they're hiding their technology.

Re: Ask HN: Elizabeth Holmes has 200 patents – if tech didn't work, why not noticed?

#4
post #2

Furthermore, if she's got patents on these processes, can she wield them against anyone who tries to implement them successfully ?

"having" a patent is different from "assigning" a patent. I haven't read through all of them but having your name on a patent is more a prestige thing and very difficult to monetize. There are exceptions to this, however.

Whoever ends up liquidating Theranos will be in a position to make a call with licensing and enforcement, assuming, of course, they don't let the patents lapse (which is probably a shorter timeframe than a complicated bankruptcy will take).

Letting the patents lapse is a deliberate strategy sometimes (it's more a defensive rather than offensive approach, to block other actors from blocking you from your own technology).

Re: Ask HN: Elizabeth Holmes has 200 patents – if tech didn't work, why not noticed?

#6
Once a patent is issued, it is exceedingly rare for it to go through additional review unless there is litigation that prompts it (re-exam, IPR, etc.)

Separately, it's quite common for people to patent things that don't work or can't be directly implemented as stand-alone things at all. Indeed, defendants in patent litigation often point out the many early patents on "flying machines" as proof that the issuance of a patent is not proof that it would lead to a working thing.

Re: Ask HN: Elizabeth Holmes has 200 patents – if tech didn't work, why not noticed?

#8
post #2

Furthermore, if she's got patents on these processes, can she wield them against anyone who tries to implement them successfully ?

She could try, but the patents might be found to be 'non-enabling' and thus invalid. Patents are supposed to teach a reader how to make the invention.

In particular, it seems that the microfluidics stuff needs new inventions to make it work in practice. So presumably those aren't described in the patents. Although it wouldn't be the first time that management overlooked solutions provided by their own researchers.

Re: Ask HN: Elizabeth Holmes has 200 patents – if tech didn't work, why not noticed?

#9
The numbers game is a part of the modern Patent system. It is almost certainly impossible for a patent officer to asses the scientific or technical merit of a patent application. At best, they can throw out the nutbar submissions. The submitting companies often want patents partly (or mostly completely) for marketing reasons: "Our technology is protected by N patents!". Even Steve Jobs said this when he introduced the iPhone: "We’ve been innovating like crazy for the last few years on this, and we filed for over 200 patents for all the inventions in iPhone, and we intend to protect them." I am sure many of them are great, but one of those 200 is mine, and, frankly, the idea in it was never used in the iPhone.

Re: Ask HN: Elizabeth Holmes has 200 patents – if tech didn't work, why not noticed?

#10
1) Competing engineers are often advised not to read patents, because it can result in treble damages in infringement claims: https://www.essentialpatentblog.com/2016/06/supreme-court-ru...

2) Patents are really hard to read

3) The difference between something that looks plausibly like it might work when written down and something that actually works can be hundreds of millions of dollars of bugfixing.

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