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Debate between sheep and grain

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Re: Debate between sheep and grain

#3

Post by Lich »

ISL wrote: post #2

Brick and wood early, wheat and ore late. Going all in on sheep with a sheep port is shooting the moon, and less reliable.

Wheat and Ore early isn't actually a bad strategy either, although a tad risky. It allows you to build your first two settlements into cities quickly, which allow you to gather resources quicker, or at least trade them into brick and wood (with the help of ports) to build roads and more settlements, which can easily be turned into cities since you're already on those resources.

Coming back to the topic at hand, :) It's not surprising how few Christians are aware of the influence of ancient near east literature on the formation of the creation story in Genesis. Pastors and theologians at more conservative and fundamentalist seminaries usually deny, ignore, or try to hide this from lay Christians in fear that they will leave the faith. This fear is actually probably a projection of their own fears, as I don't see this as some sort of evidence bomb that the Bible isn't "true", whatever that word means. It's totally expected that the ancient Israelites would be affected by the ANE literature of their time, and says of the author(s) of Genesis that they were using the stories that they know, and subverting them to tell their own (non-scientific) origin story of Yahweh and the Israelites.

Re: Debate between sheep and grain

#5

Post by cimmanom »

padobson wrote: post #4

There must have been lots of cultural clashes during the dawn of civilization between farmers and herders, because the Cain vs. Abel story seems to pop up in different forms fairly often.

Yes.

What's interesting is that although in both this story and the Cain & Abel story farming wins out, the value judgements are different. In this Sumerian myth, grain is to be revered; whereas Cain (the farmer) is reviled.

Perhaps that reflects that these two cultures experienced the same struggle from different sides.

Re: Debate between sheep and grain

#7

Post by danielvf »

Here's a link to the full text

http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/section5/tr532.htm

This seems like 3,000BC version of a rap battle, with rhyming put downs and brags.

Unlike apparently everyone else, I can't see any likeness with the story of Cain and Able, other than the involvement of plants and animals. https://www.blueletterbible.org/nlt/gen/4/1/s_4001

Re: Debate between sheep and grain

#8

Post by oflannabhra »

danielvf wrote: post #7

Here's a link to the full text http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/section5/tr532.htm This seems like 3,000BC version of a rap battle, with rhyming put downs and brags. Unlike apparently everyone else, I can't see any likeness with the story of Cain and Able, other than the involvement of plants and animals. https://www.blueletterbible.org/nlt/gen/4/1/s_4001

Cain offered grain (or at least produce) as a sacrifice. Abel offered a lamb (a living sacrifice). Abel's offering is deemed worthy, whereas Cain's is not.

I'd say the similarity between the two is that they both present an opposition of grain and sheep. I agree with you, that is not incredibly similar.

Re: Debate between sheep and grain

#9

Post by pavel_lishin »

oflannabhra wrote: post #8
danielvf wrote: post #7

Here's a link to the full text http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/section5/tr532.htm This seems like 3,000BC version of a rap battle, with rhyming put downs and brags. Unlike apparently everyone else, I can't see any likeness with the story of Cain and Able, other than the involvement of plants and animals. https://www.blueletterbible.org/nlt/gen/4/1/s_4001

Cain offered grain (or at least produce) as a sacrifice. Abel offered a lamb (a living sacrifice). Abel's offering is deemed worthy, whereas Cain's is not. I'd say the similarity between the two is that they both present an opposition of grain and sheep. I agree with you, that is not incredibly similar.

I'd wager that during the time that all these things were written, the common themes and archetypes would probably have been more apparently and obvious to the people, even if they seem kind of like a stretch to us.
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