Live data from Hacker News

There’s a new version of Firefox for VR

theverge.com

1–10 of 35 posts

Re: There’s a new version of Firefox for VR

#2
Looks really barebones for now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p05SKePDAcs

In fact, in its current form I don't really see the appeal. I can already get a "flat" web browsing experience like that without needing to put a headset on. Might be useful for a situation where I want to quickly pull up a web page without taking off my headset; but on desktop VR I can already just use regular Chrome or Firefox for that, no need for a specially-built browser.

I guess this is more about experimenting with the new UI paradigms VR/AR enable? Once they start adding better support for 3D content on the web I can start to see this making more sense.

> Mixed reality is the wild west. How do you type? How do you express emotion? How do you view the billions of existing 2D web pages as well as new 3D content? How do you communicate? Who maps the world and who controls what you see? Can we build on our work with voice recognition and connected devices to create a better browsing experience?

There are indeed a lot of interesting questions here. I think most of these problems are going to end up being handled by the VR/AR windowing system (whatever that might be) though, not by individual apps. I don't need my web browser to implement its own keyboard.

Re: There’s a new version of Firefox for VR

#3
post #2

Looks really barebones for now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p05SKePDAcs In fact, in its current form I don't really see the appeal. I can already get a "flat" web browsing experience like that without needing to put a headset on. Might be useful for a situation where I want to quickly pull up a web page without taking off my headset; but on desktop VR I can already just use regular Chrome or Firefox for that, no…

Yes, it's very barebones right now, as the team has been focused on getting performance great inside of standalone headsets. We've found from early adopters of 3DoF and 6DoF standalone VR headsets that media consumption (videos, news, twitch, etc.) is the primary use case and unfortunately pretty choppy and poor today.

We'll absolutely build out the UI and feature set (especially WebVR/WebXR!), but wanted to release as early as possible to transition away from private builds, design, and feedback to public conversations with users, developers, and device manufacturers.

And obviously we're investing in more the ecosystem - we need WebXR fully standardized and supported by all browsers, tools, engines, and frameworks. We also need lots of great content and social experiences that work on the web. We and others are investing a lot in this space - it's going to be an exciting summer!

Re: There’s a new version of Firefox for VR

#4
post #2

Looks really barebones for now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p05SKePDAcs In fact, in its current form I don't really see the appeal. I can already get a "flat" web browsing experience like that without needing to put a headset on. Might be useful for a situation where I want to quickly pull up a web page without taking off my headset; but on desktop VR I can already just use regular Chrome or Firefox for that, no…

In the description of the video you posted it says it's running on VIVE Focus (an untethered mobile device)

Re: There’s a new version of Firefox for VR

#5
This is so 100% not what I want.

I want Unreal Engine, running full time. When I go into a World, it starts downloading the neighboring worlds. When I touch a Portkey or walk through a Portal or answer a ringing phone in a phonebooth, I'm now in the next world.

That's what a "VR browser" is, to me.

A loadable Unreal Engine level is the new "HTTP / CSS / JS." And in those levels, there need to be "Hyperlinks" that let me navigate to a new level. Give me some kind of Back button, and some way to enter a new "URL." URLs probably need # anchors with 6-degree-of-freedom starting positions embedded in them.

Some worlds are single-user instances, some are multi-user (party rooms with your friends), some are like MMOs.

All of our current VR technology feels like the equivalent of downloading a PostScript file over FTP. The Web kicked ass, because it had embedded Images, and Hyperlinks - you never left it, and it felt beautifully immersive.

I want to never leave VR, and for it to be beautifully immersive.

What's "Reddit" look like? It's a museum. There are images hanging on the wall. Under them is a cute plaque with the Title, and an Up and Down button, and a Comments. You can record a VR video comment. You can record an Audio comment. You can type a comment. You can be in a live VR / or maybe Video / or maybe Audio / or maybe IRC chat room, discussing that image. The items in the museum are sorted by Popular / Best / Hot / New / Controversial, and you can change it. There are also VR Objects that we're voting on. (Websites like this exist, but they aren't IN VR.) There are Videos. There are Portals to Worlds that you can hop into, and then hop back out.

I also don't just want a "VR Browser," I want a "VR OS." The same way different Window Managers were all the rage on X, I want there to be lively debate about the best Application Managers in VR. Do they act like a HUD? How does Copy and Paste work? Is there Object Linking and Embedding? How do you get interrupted by Facebook Messenger? What is it like to have two VR apps at the same time?

INNOVATE, PEOPLE. We don't know the answers to these questions, but they are for sure OPERATING SYSTEM questions. We keep screwing around within each game. But that's like putting a floppy in your PC and BOOTING FROM THAT DISK (no OS). DOS and later Windows were COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from how we used to boot, and required lots of changes in behavior. We need that, for VR, now.

Re: There’s a new version of Firefox for VR

#6

This is so 100% not what I want. I want Unreal Engine, running full time. When I go into a World, it starts downloading the neighboring worlds. When I touch a Portkey or walk through a Portal or answer a ringing phone in a phonebooth, I'm now in the next world. That's what a "VR browser" is, to me. A loadable Unreal Engine level is the new "HTTP / CSS / JS." And in those levels, there need to be "Hyperlinks" that let…

Sounds like you want VRChat.

Re: There’s a new version of Firefox for VR

#7

This is so 100% not what I want. I want Unreal Engine, running full time. When I go into a World, it starts downloading the neighboring worlds. When I touch a Portkey or walk through a Portal or answer a ringing phone in a phonebooth, I'm now in the next world. That's what a "VR browser" is, to me. A loadable Unreal Engine level is the new "HTTP / CSS / JS." And in those levels, there need to be "Hyperlinks" that let…

There's been stuff like this going back to the 90s, and nobody actually wants this after they've tried it. You just don't have a lot of density of information, compared to what you can get from text on a screen or even video.

In addition, it's hard to use any current VR headset for more than an hour or so because of eye strain.

Re: There’s a new version of Firefox for VR

#8

This is so 100% not what I want. I want Unreal Engine, running full time. When I go into a World, it starts downloading the neighboring worlds. When I touch a Portkey or walk through a Portal or answer a ringing phone in a phonebooth, I'm now in the next world. That's what a "VR browser" is, to me. A loadable Unreal Engine level is the new "HTTP / CSS / JS." And in those levels, there need to be "Hyperlinks" that let…

Sounds like you want VRChat.

Maybe. Does it let me host my own worlds, like running my own web-server, or am I locked in to them hosting?

Also, is their file format open source, and is the client open source?

Re: There’s a new version of Firefox for VR

#9
post #7

This is so 100% not what I want. I want Unreal Engine, running full time. When I go into a World, it starts downloading the neighboring worlds. When I touch a Portkey or walk through a Portal or answer a ringing phone in a phonebooth, I'm now in the next world. That's what a "VR browser" is, to me. A loadable Unreal Engine level is the new "HTTP / CSS / JS." And in those levels, there need to be "Hyperlinks" that let…

There's been stuff like this going back to the 90s, and nobody actually wants this after they've tried it. You just don't have a lot of density of information, compared to what you can get from text on a screen or even video. In addition, it's hard to use any current VR headset for more than an hour or so because of eye strain.

I think the top flaws with those things (I authored a ton of VRML back in the day) were:

1) VR didn't actually exist yet.

2) Unreal Engine is beautiful, and didn't exist yet.

3) Bandwidth sucked (and still sucks a lot for many people).

I think you're completely wrong that "nobody wants this after they've tried it." I'm essentially describing Steam VR, and Oculus Home... except I also want hyperlinking between the experiences, and I want the App to download and install much more like how a Browser works than how Steam and Oculus Home works... Which would be aided a lot if we just used one damn engine (Unreal Engine) for everything, rather than having to install the full engine for every World.

Eye strain: I'm very hopeful that Magic Leap or other Light Field Displays will help. Also, okay, so, VR is amazing for an hour. =)

Re: There’s a new version of Firefox for VR

#10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's been stuff like this going back to the 90s, and nobody actually wants this after they've tried it. You just don't have a lot of density of information, compared to what you can get from text on a screen or even video. In addition, it's hard to use any current VR headset for more than an hour or so because of eye strain.

I think the top flaws with those things (I authored a ton of VRML back in the day) were: 1) VR didn't actually exist yet. 2) Unreal Engine is beautiful, and didn't exist yet. 3) Bandwidth sucked (and still sucks a lot for many people). I think you're completely wrong that "nobody wants this after they've tried it." I'm essentially describing Steam VR, and Oculus Home... except I also want hyperlinking between the exp…

Sorry to say that MAgic Leap’s only relation to light fields is in their marketing and now defunct patents. Their actual product apppears to be a less impressive early Hololens.
Post reply on HN