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Software Engineer, Machine Learning

deeplearning.ai

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Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning

#2

Post by foo101 »

Note: The original title of this post was: "Andrew Ng is looking for Software Engineers who routinely work 70-90 hours/week".

A moderator has understandably updated the title to "Software Engineer, Machine Learning".

Thought I should clarify this because this thread was posted to highlight the issue of demanding long work hours. There are two job postings that mention these long work hours.

Job Description 1: https://www.deeplearning.ai/machinelearningsoftwareengjobdes...

Job Description 2: https://www.deeplearning.ai/fullstacksoftwareengineerjobdesc...

Both pages originally said, "many of us routinely work and study 70-90 hours a week".

After a lot of criticism on Andrew Ng's Facebook post, as of now, it has been modified to, "many of us routinely work and study 70+ hours a week".

Andrew Ng's Facebook post: https://www.facebook.com/andrew.ng.96/posts/1472272026162033

Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning

#3

Post by jswensen »

So basically they are discriminating against people who would like to see their children? 90 hours per week == 12.86 hours per day. That means I clock in close to 7AM and clock out at 8PM every day of the week. This excludes any travel time, meals, etc. My wife called the first two years of graduate school her "grad-student widow years". Even now on occasion I put in that much time, but a consistent 70-90 hour work week is unsustainable if you value family life.

Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning

#5

Post by samoright »

daly wrote: post #4

I routinely work those hours. I love what I do, which is self-directed research in computer algebra. I'm retired, though, so I probably don't count.

90 hours/week = 18 hours/day (assuming 5-day work week). That leaves only 6 hours for other chores, travel and sleep. This is not sustainable.

So I'll assume people who can pull off a 90-hour work week work all 7 days of the week which would amount to 13 hours/day. That still leaves sufficient time for a 7-hour sleep and 4 hours of chores and entertainment.

Now, if you are your own boss where you decide the scope and the deadlines, the work is going to be fun and I can understand that you would not mind working 13 hours/day. But I don't think working 13 hours/day for a boss or a company that considers me a cost in a business transaction of buying my skills is going to be fun.

Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning

#6

Post by daly »

Since the job description includes 70-80 hours I expect that they are paying more. It would be normal to assume a 70/40 or 80/40 pay rate, that is, about twice the normal rate for a leading edge programmer. So, base salary should probably start north of $500,000 per year. And those hours will require working both at work and at home so you should expect a fully funded home-office and half-coverage of your rent. I'm willing to bet that won't happen.

Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning

#7

Post by zaptheimpaler »

If you don't like the job, DONT APPLY.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with seeking people who voluntarily wish to work those hours.

It is in fact much better than implicitly expecting long working hours like many jobs while not being upfront about it - that can trap people into a deal they did not fully understand. This is the opposite.

It may be unsustainable for the vast majority of people (me included) - so what? I don't go around crying about coal miners jobs because it would be unsustainable for my physical frame, I just choose not to apply.

Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning

#9

Post by kloncks »

I genuinely don't understand the criticism. You don't find or enjoy working 70-90 hours healthy? That's your view and you likely shouldn't apply for this position.

Even assuming this is crazy, what's wrong with crazy people recruiting similarly minded crazy people? It's most obviously not a fit for anyone who wants to work 40 hours or wants to see their kids or whatever, but for those, there are plenty of other jobs. I just find it crazy that because of your personal views on work-life-balance, you expect Ng to have to change his desires for you. That seems wrong to me imho.

Re: Software Engineer, Machine Learning

#10

Post by wageslaving »

daly wrote: post #6

Since the job description includes 70-80 hours I expect that they are paying more. It would be normal to assume a 70/40 or 80/40 pay rate, that is, about twice the normal rate for a leading edge programmer. So, base salary should probably start north of $500,000 per year. And those hours will require working both at work and at home so you should expect a fully funded home-office and half-coverage of your rent. I'm w…

Personally, I would expect at least time and a half applied to those last 30-40 hours as well. Which would be 85/40 to 100/40.
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