The dwarfs of our vocabulary
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The dwarfs of our vocabulary
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Re: The dwarfs of our vocabulary
#2Shouldn't it be dwarves?
Re: The dwarfs of our vocabulary
#3Shouldn't it be dwarves?
No. "Dwarves" and "dwarvish" were deliberately introduced by Tolkien as a way of making Middle-Earth language stand apart from English. He mentions it as a deliberate choice in the foreword.
It's a mark of the popularity of his books that people assume that's the correct spelling in English, because that's the most common form of it they've seen, but "dwarfs" is the correct usage outside Middle-Earth.
Re: The dwarfs of our vocabulary
#4Shouldn't it be dwarves?
No. "Dwarves" and "dwarvish" were deliberately introduced by Tolkien as a way of making Middle-Earth language stand apart from English. He mentions it as a deliberate choice in the foreword. It's a mark of the popularity of his books that people assume that's the correct spelling in English, because that's the most common form of it they've seen, but "dwarfs" is the correct usage outside Middle-Earth.
It apparently existed pre-Tolkien [not really surprisingly as it's one of those weird English plural forms that can go multiple ways] and there's at least some evidence that he retconned it as a deliberate choice. e.g. https://jakubmarian.com/dwarves-or-dwarfs-which-spelling-is-...
ADDED from the link:
Tolkien himself admitted that “dwarves” was a misspelling. In a letter to Stanley Unwin, the publisher of The Hobbit, he wrote:
"No reviewer (that I have seen), although all have carefully used the correct dwarfs themselves, has commented on the fact (which I only became conscious of through reviews) that I use throughout the ‘incorrect’ plural dwarves. I am afraid it is just a piece of private bad grammar, rather shocking in a philologist; but I shall have to go on with it."
Re: The dwarfs of our vocabulary
#5Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. "Dwarves" and "dwarvish" were deliberately introduced by Tolkien as a way of making Middle-Earth language stand apart from English. He mentions it as a deliberate choice in the foreword. It's a mark of the popularity of his books that people assume that's the correct spelling in English, because that's the most common form of it they've seen, but "dwarfs" is the correct usage outside Middle-Earth.
It apparently existed pre-Tolkien [not really surprisingly as it's one of those weird English plural forms that can go multiple ways] and there's at least some evidence that he retconned it as a deliberate choice. e.g. https://jakubmarian.com/dwarves-or-dwarfs-which-spelling-is-... ADDED from the link: Tolkien himself admitted that “dwarves” was a misspelling. In a letter to Stanley Unwin, the publisher of The Hobbit…
Interesting, did not know that. He implies (but doesn't say flat-out and it could indeed be a retcon) in the foreword to The Hobbit that it's deliberate:
In English the only correct plural of dwarf is dwarfs, and the adjective
is dwarfish. In this story dwarves and dwarvish are used, but only when
speaking of the ancient people to whom Thorin Oakenshield and his
companions belonged.
Re: The dwarfs of our vocabulary
#6Earlier quoted context omitted.
It apparently existed pre-Tolkien [not really surprisingly as it's one of those weird English plural forms that can go multiple ways] and there's at least some evidence that he retconned it as a deliberate choice. e.g. https://jakubmarian.com/dwarves-or-dwarfs-which-spelling-is-... ADDED from the link: Tolkien himself admitted that “dwarves” was a misspelling. In a letter to Stanley Unwin, the publisher of The Hobbit…
Interesting, did not know that. He implies (but doesn't say flat-out and it could indeed be a retcon) in the foreword to The Hobbit that it's deliberate: In English the only correct plural of dwarf is dwarfs, and the adjective is dwarfish. In this story dwarves and dwarvish are used, but only when speaking of the ancient people to whom Thorin Oakenshield and his companions belonged. I've not heard of any usage of it…
You can look at ngrams. It's much lower pre-Tolkein but "dwarves" exists:
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=dwarves&year_s...
Dwarvish is a more unusual world and it doesn't surprise me that's almost exclusively tied to Tolkien and derivatives.
Re: The dwarfs of our vocabulary
#7Shouldn't it be dwarves?
No. "Dwarves" and "dwarvish" were deliberately introduced by Tolkien as a way of making Middle-Earth language stand apart from English. He mentions it as a deliberate choice in the foreword. It's a mark of the popularity of his books that people assume that's the correct spelling in English, because that's the most common form of it they've seen, but "dwarfs" is the correct usage outside Middle-Earth.
> "Dwarves" and "dwarvish" were deliberately introduced by Tolkien as a way of making Middle-Earth language stand apart from English.
> It's a mark of the popularity of his books that people assume that's the correct spelling in English
It's more likely a mark of the fact that people are familiar with other common English nouns ending in f, such as wolf(wolves) / leaf(leaves) / hoof(hooves) / elf(elves) / staff(staves). (Granted, some of those are less common than others.)
I see no reason to believe that "dwarf" was the odd noun that resisted that process. Making Middle-Earth language "stand apart from English" by applying a perfectly normal rule of English would be an odd thing to try.
Re: The dwarfs of our vocabulary
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. "Dwarves" and "dwarvish" were deliberately introduced by Tolkien as a way of making Middle-Earth language stand apart from English. He mentions it as a deliberate choice in the foreword. It's a mark of the popularity of his books that people assume that's the correct spelling in English, because that's the most common form of it they've seen, but "dwarfs" is the correct usage outside Middle-Earth.
> "Dwarves" and "dwarvish" were deliberately introduced by Tolkien as a way of making Middle-Earth language stand apart from English. > It's a mark of the popularity of his books that people assume that's the correct spelling in English It's more likely a mark of the fact that people are familiar with other common English nouns ending in f, such as wolf(wolves) / leaf(leaves) / hoof(hooves) / elf(elves) / staff(stave…
If you look at when the "v" form spiked, it's a good bet that Tolkien influenced that a lot. But, yes, it's a common plural form for many (but not all) English words that end in f in the singular. But no one uses chieves as the plural for chief for example.
Re: The dwarfs of our vocabulary
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
It apparently existed pre-Tolkien [not really surprisingly as it's one of those weird English plural forms that can go multiple ways] and there's at least some evidence that he retconned it as a deliberate choice. e.g. https://jakubmarian.com/dwarves-or-dwarfs-which-spelling-is-... ADDED from the link: Tolkien himself admitted that “dwarves” was a misspelling. In a letter to Stanley Unwin, the publisher of The Hobbit…
Interesting, did not know that. He implies (but doesn't say flat-out and it could indeed be a retcon) in the foreword to The Hobbit that it's deliberate: In English the only correct plural of dwarf is dwarfs, and the adjective is dwarfish. In this story dwarves and dwarvish are used, but only when speaking of the ancient people to whom Thorin Oakenshield and his companions belonged. I've not heard of any usage of it…
>> In English the only correct plural of dwarf is dwarfs
etymonline points out that the form with a better-in-some-sense claim to be "correct" is dwarrows, not "dwarfs". But that term was uncommon enough that it completely died out. ( http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=dwarf )
As I mentioned sidethread, "dwarves" is a natural extension of what happens with other common English words ending in f, making it difficult to argue that it is somehow incorrect.
Re: The dwarfs of our vocabulary
#10Shouldn't it be dwarves?
No. "Dwarves" and "dwarvish" were deliberately introduced by Tolkien as a way of making Middle-Earth language stand apart from English. He mentions it as a deliberate choice in the foreword. It's a mark of the popularity of his books that people assume that's the correct spelling in English, because that's the most common form of it they've seen, but "dwarfs" is the correct usage outside Middle-Earth.
The “correct usage” is what’s commonly used by people, not what’s technically correct.
If people use dwarves, then it’s correct to use it regardless of origins.
It’s the same thing with the whole octopus plural thing. Both octopi and octopuses are completely correct despite octopedes technically being the right answer.