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The Best DevOps Is NoOps

medium.com

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Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#2
"NoOps means that application developers will never have to speak with an operations professional again."

I really hope this is a joke. Application developers have a hard tendency towards "getting the job done" without thinking of optimisation and scaling, which will lead to gigantic costs. Ops people are not only for maintenance, they are also the ones thinking about scalability including costs. If you get rid of this layer you will end up running your business at a much higher operational price tag than you should and you will lose money.

Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#3
Hate to tell this every I see anything "DevOps" related on Linkedin or HN or wherever:

There is no such thing as a "DevOps" engineer... DevOps is a culture, not a job description.

I'm working as a consultant and every big enterprise right now is looking for "DevOps" engineers. They give their developers and operations people a "DevOps" course, make sure they get their "DevOps" certificate and voila, the enterprise is now doing "DevOps"... WTF?!

Some enterprises even say: "Ye, we have 2 DevOpes, so we're cool right?" while they keep doing projects in WaterScrumfall: variable scope, variable budget, fixed deadline sigh

Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#5
I see two problems:

1. „Ship, ship, ship!“ – Yes, a speed advantage over competitors - especially with a new innovative product - is a key factor for startups. BUT: does anybody really believe in the transition from prototype to a scaling product? The article talks about „Startup Lifecycle with DevOps / NoOps“. Show me a business that has done this transition; planning ahead for a rewrite and budget für new admins.

2. Cloud-lockin. This should be taken very seriously by any startup that wants to live longer than a technology cycle. If you choose to build your platform on top of cloud technologies, you give up the control over functionality and storage. IMO any tech business should be able to handle at least web and application server architectures for their platform (I agree that mail is something different that should be left to mail providers).

Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#6
I've been saying this for a while.

If you are spending less than $25k/mo on Heroku or equivalent, you're not ready to move off it yet.

A lot of times when I talk to people with a high Heroku bill looking to move to bare metal, I end up being able to optimize it by 1/3rd or more just by picking dyno types, scaling appropriately, and consolidating workers. You can't really do that when you're hiring headcount.

Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#7
post #2

"NoOps means that application developers will never have to speak with an operations professional again." I really hope this is a joke. Application developers have a hard tendency towards "getting the job done" without thinking of optimisation and scaling, which will lead to gigantic costs. Ops people are not only for maintenance, they are also the ones thinking about scalability including costs. If you get rid of th…

Hey pmlnr, author here. I think what the post is trying to say is that the ops team will still be at the company, but the communication overhead across teams will be less of a burden. Your ops team will still be thinking about cost, scalability - but your developers can focus on shipping features. We also mention that this is a good approach for early stage startups looking for product market fit, i.e scalability and server costs still haven't become an issue at this stage.

Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#8

I've been saying this for a while. If you are spending less than $25k/mo on Heroku or equivalent, you're not ready to move off it yet. A lot of times when I talk to people with a high Heroku bill looking to move to bare metal, I end up being able to optimize it by 1/3rd or more just by picking dyno types, scaling appropriately, and consolidating workers. You can't really do that when you're hiring headcount.

How can you compare the monthly price versus VM types/capabilities?

What does my bill say about the performance of my app in an e.g. Amazon environment?

Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#9
post #7
post #2

"NoOps means that application developers will never have to speak with an operations professional again." I really hope this is a joke. Application developers have a hard tendency towards "getting the job done" without thinking of optimisation and scaling, which will lead to gigantic costs. Ops people are not only for maintenance, they are also the ones thinking about scalability including costs. If you get rid of th…

Hey pmlnr, author here. I think what the post is trying to say is that the ops team will still be at the company, but the communication overhead across teams will be less of a burden. Your ops team will still be thinking about cost, scalability - but your developers can focus on shipping features. We also mention that this is a good approach for early stage startups looking for product market fit, i.e scalability and…

shipping features is always at odds with having stable product. the former is the goal of engineering team, the latter is the goal of operations team. devops is culture of communication between those, not some magical hybrid of both that makes the site run.

Re: The Best DevOps Is NoOps

#10
Maybe I'm old school, but I really hope developers give a serious thought before jumping into this vendor lock-in trap.

This is specially concerning if not scary, when you start to "outsource" the backend business rules to something like Firebase or other BaaS systems.

Using these as PoC or for an MVP, I'm 100% behind it, but using it on production ready products, it's a disaster waiting to happen, as it basically puts your company product under someone else's rules, and if those rules changes or worse, if these companies go bankrupt, migrating to another system could be the death of your product as well.

I'm not against BaaS, I think they're very useful, for prototyping, for micro-services that don't directly affect the main product business rules (image processing, chat app, etc..) but putting all your "gold eggs" into a vendor system should be taken after a serious thought of the pros and cons.

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