Apple Pay and the rise of the five-party network
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Apple Pay and the rise of the five-party network
1–10 of 23 posts
Re: Apple Pay and the rise of the five-party network
#2Does anybody know how Apple Pay peer-to-peer actually works? I find all the information I can on the web disappointingly light. The same thing was true for the original Apple Pay which lead to myths like Apple Pay using a new PAN every time out pay.
> Bank transfers will be handled separately.
When are bank transfers used and for what? For unloading? If so do you have to unload via bank transfer or can you use a CFT transaction? I can't imagine a case where you want to unload using an ACH or SWIFT transaction. I would image you always want to use a domestic settlement system or T2 if you can.
> Apple Pay Cash’s back-end is powered by a Green Dot-backed Visa prepaid card
Only in the US or globally? I imagine there is a lot of fine print associated with that like the amount of funds you can store. I will get a tax statement even if I live outside the US, right?
Re: Apple Pay and the rise of the five-party network
#3Does anybody know how Apple Pay peer-to-peer actually works? I find all the information I can on the web disappointingly light. The same thing was true for the original Apple Pay which lead to myths like Apple Pay using a new PAN every time out pay. > Bank transfers will be handled separately. When are bank transfers used and for what? For unloading? If so do you have to unload via bank transfer or can you use a CFT…
It's a debit push payment. Everyone is issued a green dog virtual card and then the entire network works over debit (with a layer of abstraction that Apple builds on top).
Re: Apple Pay and the rise of the five-party network
#4A centralized payment system will never be able to provide the best service for users. With a single entity in control -- as opposed to an open system where newcomers can enter and compete with incumbents -- there are no competitors, and competitors are responsible for pushing down fees and adding innovation, thus forcing incumbents to follow along or fade away. That's why the web is so successful: competition is built in through an open protocol, so competitors can replace incumbents by providing a better service/price.
With the iPod and iTunes, and the iPhone and the App Store, Apple created something that didn't exist before, and captured most of the newly created market. Replicating VISA's business model doesn't do the same, but simply adds a couple of features to an otherwise closed system where users will not benefit from competition.
An actual alternative to VISA needs to be open, allowing for competitors to easily enter and compete with existing actors. Such a system is the Stroem protocol on top of Bitcoin, which is a thin clearing protocol designed for competition, constantly forcing issuers to follow along on price or be left behind. This is what merchants want, and what's needed to revolutionize payments.
Re: Apple Pay and the rise of the five-party network
#5Does anybody know how Apple Pay peer-to-peer actually works? I find all the information I can on the web disappointingly light. The same thing was true for the original Apple Pay which lead to myths like Apple Pay using a new PAN every time out pay. > Bank transfers will be handled separately. When are bank transfers used and for what? For unloading? If so do you have to unload via bank transfer or can you use a CFT…
> which lead to myths like Apple Pay using a new PAN every time out pay.
Yeah I discovered much later that's effectively a function of tap-to-pay (which is highly prominent here in Australia, unlike many countries, almost every shop terminal has support and almost all bank cards have it also... chip and pin is also standard, and signatures are never allowed for domestic card even with a swipe)
Re: Apple Pay and the rise of the five-party network
#6Does anybody know how Apple Pay peer-to-peer actually works? I find all the information I can on the web disappointingly light. The same thing was true for the original Apple Pay which lead to myths like Apple Pay using a new PAN every time out pay. > Bank transfers will be handled separately. When are bank transfers used and for what? For unloading? If so do you have to unload via bank transfer or can you use a CFT…
It's a debit push payment. Everyone is issued a green dog virtual card and then the entire network works over debit (with a layer of abstraction that Apple builds on top).
> It's a debit push payment
What does that mean?
> Everyone is issued a green dog virtual card
I assume that's just a VISA Debit or VPAY with a special BIN range. Is that correct? Does everybody in the world participating in Apple Pay get a US issued VISA Debit card?
> then the entire network works over debit
There is no difference at all between VISA credit and VISA debit apart from interchange and when how the issuer bills the card holder. The whole infrastructure is the same. I assume with "works over debit" you mean is VISA cleared, is that correct? Does that also mean that unloading happens with a CFT transactions? If so what does the following sentence in the article mean "Bank transfers will be handled separately."?
Re: Apple Pay and the rise of the five-party network
#7A centralized payment system will never be able to provide the best service for users. With a single entity in control -- as opposed to an open system where newcomers can enter and compete with incumbents -- there are no competitors, and competitors are responsible for pushing down fees and adding innovation, thus forcing incumbents to follow along or fade away. That's why the web is so successful: competition is bui…
This is probably not a popular opinion. Visa and Mastercards were all owned by the banks that back your credit card. These are highly regulated organizations. I rather not have startups that have sometimes have pretty dubious reputations for skirting the law trying to get into this space. What if someone steals your bitcoin what do you do? Or if you purchase something and you don't get it.
Re: Apple Pay and the rise of the five-party network
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a debit push payment. Everyone is issued a green dog virtual card and then the entire network works over debit (with a layer of abstraction that Apple builds on top).
> It's a debit push payment What does that mean? > Everyone is issued a green dog virtual card I assume that's just a VISA Debit or VPAY with a special BIN range. Is that correct? Does everybody in the world participating in Apple Pay get a US issued VISA Debit card? > then the entire network works over debit There is no difference at all between VISA credit and VISA debit apart from interchange and when how the issu…
They're good questions, but I think they're answered by the point that Apple Pay Cash is US-only. The service is just Apple's abstraction of Green Dot [1] branded prepaid reloadable VISA cards. If it's US only, Apple doesn't need to worry about the international corner cases yet.
There's some more info at Recode [2]:
[2] https://www.recode.net/2017/6/5/15741636/apple-pay-p2p-venmo...
Re: Apple Pay and the rise of the five-party network
#9A centralized payment system will never be able to provide the best service for users. With a single entity in control -- as opposed to an open system where newcomers can enter and compete with incumbents -- there are no competitors, and competitors are responsible for pushing down fees and adding innovation, thus forcing incumbents to follow along or fade away. That's why the web is so successful: competition is bui…
This is probably not a popular opinion. Visa and Mastercards were all owned by the banks that back your credit card. These are highly regulated organizations. I rather not have startups that have sometimes have pretty dubious reputations for skirting the law trying to get into this space. What if someone steals your bitcoin what do you do? Or if you purchase something and you don't get it.
You won't use Uber Bank?
Re: Apple Pay and the rise of the five-party network
#10A centralized payment system will never be able to provide the best service for users. With a single entity in control -- as opposed to an open system where newcomers can enter and compete with incumbents -- there are no competitors, and competitors are responsible for pushing down fees and adding innovation, thus forcing incumbents to follow along or fade away. That's why the web is so successful: competition is bui…
This is probably not a popular opinion. Visa and Mastercards were all owned by the banks that back your credit card. These are highly regulated organizations. I rather not have startups that have sometimes have pretty dubious reputations for skirting the law trying to get into this space. What if someone steals your bitcoin what do you do? Or if you purchase something and you don't get it.
It's cheaper to lose 100% of your purchase 2% of the time than 3% of your purchase 100% of the time.
Insurance is for health and houses not my $8 lunch or $500 wallet contents.