How we secretly introduced Haskell and got away with it
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How we secretly introduced Haskell and got away with it
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Re: How we secretly introduced Haskell and got away with it
#2The comparison between Stack and Python build tools is striking:
> No messing around with virtualenvs and requirement files. Everybody builds with the same dependency versions. No more “works on my machine” and “did you install the latest requirements?”.
I wonder why the Python ecosystem, which is much more mature, doesn't provide a build tool as delightful as Stack (which is less than 2 years old).
Re: How we secretly introduced Haskell and got away with it
#3It looks like jobmachine is a private repo, maybe don't include the url in your blog post :)
Re: How we secretly introduced Haskell and got away with it
#4The comparison between Stack and Python build tools is striking: > No messing around with virtualenvs and requirement files. Everybody builds with the same dependency versions. No more “works on my machine” and “did you install the latest requirements?”. I wonder why the Python ecosystem, which is much more mature, doesn't provide a build tool as delightful as Stack (which is less than 2 years old).
The whole "Do you have the dependencies and a Python env installed? Noß Then you can't run this script/program." was one of the main reasons I switched from Python to Rust, where cargo as the (very good) package manager comes with the language and, because Rust is a compiled language, you build all the dependencies into your executable you aren't dependent(heh.) on the user having installed a runtime that maybe or maybe not has all the dependencies at the required versions.
Re: How we secretly introduced Haskell and got away with it
#5The comparison between Stack and Python build tools is striking: > No messing around with virtualenvs and requirement files. Everybody builds with the same dependency versions. No more “works on my machine” and “did you install the latest requirements?”. I wonder why the Python ecosystem, which is much more mature, doesn't provide a build tool as delightful as Stack (which is less than 2 years old).
Probably for the same reason I greatly prefer cabal to stack. Stack assumes it knows better than me. Cabal just does what I tell it to do. As a domain expert, I greatly prefer the latter. It does what I want, nothing more, nothing less. Stack is a mysterious "solution" to a problem I don't have that works by doing everything differently than I do.
Stack was created because not everyone is a domain expert. A lot of people don't want to be domain experts. They just want something that works without having to know all the details. It was only able (in the business sense) to be created because so many people look at Haskell skeptically anyway, and take any excuse to back away from it. The people behind the development of stack also run a major advocacy initiative trying to get people to use Haskell, so they found it to be an important thing to build.
You don't need to try to get people to use Python. It's already broadly accepted. When people run into trouble, they just say it's the price of using Python, and aren't willing to make the exchange of giving up power to get rid of a minor inconvenience. So there's no business incentive in the Python ecosystem for making the tradeoffs stack does in the Haskell ecosystem.
Re: How we secretly introduced Haskell and got away with it
#6In the 1990s I did research on the efficacy claims of object oriented programming versus procedural programming. This article bares a striking resemblance in the claims. Case study after case study showed that object oriented code had less bugs due to compilers catching bugs, etc. However, almost every study was similar to this report: it was a re-write from procedural to object-oriented. There exists strong evidence to suggest that throwing away ones first prototype produces the same results as to benefits comparing object-oriented versus procedural programming. The conclusion of my research was the same as others: unless one is comparing the same project written from scratch without any sharing of design or code then these studies claims are correlation, not causation.
Re: How we secretly introduced Haskell and got away with it
#7The comparison between Stack and Python build tools is striking: > No messing around with virtualenvs and requirement files. Everybody builds with the same dependency versions. No more “works on my machine” and “did you install the latest requirements?”. I wonder why the Python ecosystem, which is much more mature, doesn't provide a build tool as delightful as Stack (which is less than 2 years old).
I think newer often tends to easier because it has the benefit of hindsight in this case. Also the old tools tend to get more complicated as time goes on.
Re: How we secretly introduced Haskell and got away with it
#8It looks like jobmachine is a private repo, maybe don't include the url in your blog post :)
I don't think there is any harm done in putting it in there. All GitHub urls follow a standard schema, so if you wanted to you could anyway guess it.
The point of the code snippet was simply to highlight how nice the Haskell build tools are compared to Python's.
Re: How we secretly introduced Haskell and got away with it
#9The comparison between Stack and Python build tools is striking: > No messing around with virtualenvs and requirement files. Everybody builds with the same dependency versions. No more “works on my machine” and “did you install the latest requirements?”. I wonder why the Python ecosystem, which is much more mature, doesn't provide a build tool as delightful as Stack (which is less than 2 years old).
The whole "Do you have the dependencies and a Python env installed? Noß Then you can't run this script/program." was one of the main reasons I switched from Python to Rust, where cargo as the (very good) package manager comes with the language and, because Rust is a compiled language, you build all the dependencies into your executable you aren't dependent(heh.) on the user having installed a runtime that maybe or ma…
I have pygradle generate a PEX file for all of my command scripts. Not as seamless as cargo or stack, but it works without rewriting everything.
Re: How we secretly introduced Haskell and got away with it
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
The whole "Do you have the dependencies and a Python env installed? Noß Then you can't run this script/program." was one of the main reasons I switched from Python to Rust, where cargo as the (very good) package manager comes with the language and, because Rust is a compiled language, you build all the dependencies into your executable you aren't dependent(heh.) on the user having installed a runtime that maybe or ma…
I have pygradle generate a PEX file for all of my command scripts. Not as seamless as cargo or stack, but it works without rewriting everything.
I should probably have clarified that I wanted the "seamless" way of making the final executable.
IIRC, I tried(really hard) and failed on getting some method of "freezing" for Python to work, which made me weary of the prospect of trying something like that in Python in the future(now past).