How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner
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Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner
#2They've put pretty typical Apple-esque levels of effort into the entire chain, including financial shenanigans that got them in trouble with the EU. It'll be interesting to see whether they can make good on their promise to onshore some of their manufacturing.
Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner
#3Beyond iPhone in China, I have a larger question. Let's say I were building product in the US with child labor in unsafe conditions not adhering to US laws and regulations. Would I be allowed to sell that product in the US? Probably not. If I were doing similarly around the world then seeking to sell that product in the US, it happens to be the case that I could.
Why is that the case? Why is it that product built in foreign countries that do not adhere to US laws and regulations on manufacturing and labor are allowed to be sold in the US?
Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner
#4Beyond iPhone in China, I have a larger question. Let's say I were building product in the US with child labor in unsafe conditions not adhering to US laws and regulations. Would I be allowed to sell that product in the US? Probably not. If I were doing similarly around the world then seeking to sell that product in the US, it happens to be the case that I could. Why is that the case? Why is it that product built in…
Because that's capitalism in today's world. It's the "free market" at work. I don't think the focus should be on preventing people from using "bad labour" but rather on making it so that there would be no reason to use "bad labour". As much as people on HN especially would be so critical of Socialism, they often shy away from these topics - beacuse they are uncomfortable to think about.
The fact of the matter is that it's not good for business - neither for the people in government, nor for Apple, to be force Apple to make their products where there is some guarantee that the workers are being treated fairly. It's worse for Apple, of course, but politicians don't want to lose their lobbying money or their power.
Lots of people will be saying "it's horrible what they're doing" without realising the cause - the unustainable model of global capitalism that is forever requiring higher and higher returns. Such growth for this kind of labour is much harder to accomplish where it costs more, such as in the US.
Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner
#5Beyond iPhone in China, I have a larger question. Let's say I were building product in the US with child labor in unsafe conditions not adhering to US laws and regulations. Would I be allowed to sell that product in the US? Probably not. If I were doing similarly around the world then seeking to sell that product in the US, it happens to be the case that I could. Why is that the case? Why is it that product built in…
Because that's capitalism in today's world. It's the "free market" at work. I don't think the focus should be on preventing people from using "bad labour" but rather on making it so that there would be no reason to use "bad labour". As much as people on HN especially would be so critical of Socialism, they often shy away from these topics - beacuse they are uncomfortable to think about. The fact of the matter is that…
> As much as people on HN especially would be so critical of Socialism
Where do you get this from? Pretty much everyone from Europe is very grateful for the various safety nets the countries have built up there, especially in West-Europe.
Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner
#6Beyond iPhone in China, I have a larger question. Let's say I were building product in the US with child labor in unsafe conditions not adhering to US laws and regulations. Would I be allowed to sell that product in the US? Probably not. If I were doing similarly around the world then seeking to sell that product in the US, it happens to be the case that I could. Why is that the case? Why is it that product built in…
I believe one of Apple's higher ups has talked about child labor before.
I'm not sure if it was Steve or Tim but the convo was that its impossible to handle without hurting the communities because the norm is child labor over there. So the conditions for the children are worse if they have no labor. It's really complicated and not something that you can judge from an arm chair position, you have to go over there and see it with your own eyes.
Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner
#7Beyond iPhone in China, I have a larger question. Let's say I were building product in the US with child labor in unsafe conditions not adhering to US laws and regulations. Would I be allowed to sell that product in the US? Probably not. If I were doing similarly around the world then seeking to sell that product in the US, it happens to be the case that I could. Why is that the case? Why is it that product built in…
Maybe we shouldn't allow that. Perhaps we should apply a tax to adjust for environmental and labor impact. I imagine it would be $0 from Europe. A medium tax from China to account for the complete lack of environmental regulation. A high tax for products from places like Bangladesh.
There is nothing that says we have to allow for free trade. It certainly hasn't been a net-benefit to the United States itself.
Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner
#8Beyond iPhone in China, I have a larger question. Let's say I were building product in the US with child labor in unsafe conditions not adhering to US laws and regulations. Would I be allowed to sell that product in the US? Probably not. If I were doing similarly around the world then seeking to sell that product in the US, it happens to be the case that I could. Why is that the case? Why is it that product built in…
Because that's capitalism in today's world. It's the "free market" at work. I don't think the focus should be on preventing people from using "bad labour" but rather on making it so that there would be no reason to use "bad labour". As much as people on HN especially would be so critical of Socialism, they often shy away from these topics - beacuse they are uncomfortable to think about. The fact of the matter is that…
This article by Krugman changed my world view:
http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/19...
It is almost 20 years old and notes that industrialization and modernization is a process. It doesn't really work for a country to get rich without climbing it [edit: except free money, like with oil], including simple jobs in the beginning -- and now China is doing it.
In my book, it is good for humanity with a billion less horribly poor people. It doesn't feel bad to be on the other side of that, because of ideology?
Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner
#9Beyond iPhone in China, I have a larger question. Let's say I were building product in the US with child labor in unsafe conditions not adhering to US laws and regulations. Would I be allowed to sell that product in the US? Probably not. If I were doing similarly around the world then seeking to sell that product in the US, it happens to be the case that I could. Why is that the case? Why is it that product built in…
Maybe we shouldn't allow that. Perhaps we should apply a tax to adjust for environmental and labor impact. I imagine it would be $0 from Europe. A medium tax from China to account for the complete lack of environmental regulation. A high tax for products from places like Bangladesh. There is nothing that says we have to allow for free trade. It certainly hasn't been a net-benefit to the United States itself.
But wouldn't that just burden American businesses against foreign competitors? It would make it so Americans would quit offshoring and simply incorporate outside of U.S. jurisdiction. That or lose to Chinese businesses that are less regulated and are thus free to be "more innovative"
Re: How China Built ‘iPhone City’ with Billions in Perks for Apple’s Partner
#10Beyond iPhone in China, I have a larger question. Let's say I were building product in the US with child labor in unsafe conditions not adhering to US laws and regulations. Would I be allowed to sell that product in the US? Probably not. If I were doing similarly around the world then seeking to sell that product in the US, it happens to be the case that I could. Why is that the case? Why is it that product built in…
Foxconn obviously isn't perfect but like 99.99% of their workforce is old enough to work legally.