Kraken confirms July the 20th #ethereum Hardfork

alexmingoia wrote: post #3

And what happens once another exploit occurs? How many hard-forks will there be due to the tyranny of the sore-loser majority?

I was wondering the same thing. Turns out the answer is: probably. Elites will always bend the system to their advantage to avoid losing control.

It'll be fascinating anthropology though. We've never seen a cryptocurrency betray its fundamental principles to help a few rich people save face before.

Re: Kraken confirms July the 20th #ethereum Hardfork

#5

Post by captainmuon » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 9:44 AM UTC

I don't understand the rage of some people against this decision. Cryptocurrency should be about free association of individuals and not about blindly following a flawed protocol that just happened to be the first implemented. If the consensus or vast majority vote is to upgrade the protocol, then that is what should be done. If everybody decides to stop using etherium and issue IOUs in the value of the currency they held, and use that as money, also fine. If they decide unanimously to change the protocol to give one person all the money, so they can build a huge goat idol, then that's the collective decision.

No doubt the contracts and the protocol will be refined many times until they convey the intention of the community better.

The beautiful thing about a correctly implemented cryptocurrency is that single actors cannot act against the majority will of the community. But that doesn't mean we can't shut down our computers for a minute to reconsider the rules of the game, if we find a new consensus.

Re: Kraken confirms July the 20th #ethereum Hardfork

#6

Post by kbody » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 9:45 AM UTC

Ethereum developers really put themselves in a horrible position.

1. Undisclosed investments on DAO from top ETH devs

2. The 5% "consensus" on hardfork

3. The inherent fragility on the implementation design of smart contracts

The whole situation is really messy and Ethereum foundation didn't step up to think what's best for the future of Ethereum. The most important gripe for me is that there is still no proper retrospective from the Ethereum organisation and how will they prevent this from happening again.

All these made really unattractive the use of ETH, not to speak of value storage of course.

I hope Rootstock will learn from Ethereum's mistakes and do better.

Re: Kraken confirms July the 20th #ethereum Hardfork

#7

Post by captainmuon » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 9:49 AM UTC

alexmingoia wrote: post #3

And what happens once another exploit occurs? How many hard-forks will there be due to the tyranny of the sore-loser majority?

I'm guessing there will be many forking changes. I'm surprised that people thought version 1.0 would be perfect.

If the majority of users agree a change is better, then by all means, why shouldn't they change. The protocol should convey the intentions of the users, and not result in random behavior.

Re: Kraken confirms July the 20th #ethereum Hardfork

#8

Post by beefield » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 10:02 AM UTC

So. the intent of the DAO was _not_ specified in the code unlike claimed by all the hype. If I was a potential investor, I would be extremely curious to find out where the intent of DAO nowadays _is_ defined.

Re: Kraken confirms July the 20th #ethereum Hardfork

#9

Post by mlvljr » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 10:08 AM UTC

grabcocque wrote: post #4

alexmingoia wrote: post #3

And what happens once another exploit occurs? How many hard-forks will there be due to the tyranny of the sore-loser majority?

I was wondering the same thing. Turns out the answer is: probably. Elites will always bend the system to their advantage to avoid losing control. It'll be fascinating anthropology though. We've never seen a cryptocurrency betray its fundamental principles to help a few rich people save face before.

Sounds more like corruptocurrency now :)

Re: Kraken confirms July the 20th #ethereum Hardfork

#10

Post by allthetime » Fri, Jul 15, 2016, 10:16 AM UTC

captainmuon wrote: post #5

I don't understand the rage of some people against this decision. Cryptocurrency should be about free association of individuals and not about blindly following a flawed protocol that just happened to be the first implemented. If the consensus or vast majority vote is to upgrade the protocol, then that is what should be done. If everybody decides to stop using etherium and issue IOUs in the value of the currency they…

That's the thing though, they aren't changing the protocol, they are just reversing the transactions that fed the DAO. The DAO was flawed, not Ethereum, and now Ethereum's stability and promise of immutability are being sacrificed so that a bunch of people (including the lead devs of ethereum) who made a bad, uninformed investment don't have to lose their money.

The 'consensus' was not by a vast majority either, unless you consider 5% a vast majority.