The subtleties in outsourcing using RentACoder

#1

Post by epi0Bauqu » Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 8:03 PM UTC

The subtleties in outsourcing using RentACoder
blog.cubeofm.com

Re: The subtleties in outsourcing using RentACoder

#2

Post by rubyrescue » Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 8:31 PM UTC

This is great stuff and worth referring back to when you initiate a project.

My experiences as a hiring manager have been from having a dude stiff me for $800 of work, to hiring a full-time developer I found on rentacoder that became a personal friend.

Re: The subtleties in outsourcing using RentACoder

#3

Post by wallop » Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 8:35 PM UTC

Extremely well-written, concise-but-detailed, no-bullshit guide to a process that I have shied away from because it seemed to involve a lot of mysterious complexities.

The author's recommendations provide extremely reasonable advice to follow in any project management endeavor. He emphasizes an assertive but respectful approach, taking the needs of both sides of the project into consideration and outlines a wide range of practical details that you could only know about from having a high degree of first-hand familiarity with this service.

I'm saving this and hope to draw on it soon, now that it doesn't seem quite so daunting. Thanks for posting.

Re: The subtleties in outsourcing using RentACoder

#4

Post by andrewljohnson » Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 8:57 PM UTC

I've had experience using online sites to source jobs, and I think this advice is right on.

Here are some summary points, generalized away from rent-a-coder:

* don't hire Americans to do commodity work (i.e. PHP CRUD)

* be clear but not ominous in your job description, and include visual mocks if at all possible

* don't try and be secretive - no one wants your dumb idea anyways

* make sure someone has a decent reputation on the site you use

* keep track of the progress of the product and keep in touch with the coder, but don't be overbearing

* be somewhat flexible with the deliverable - aim for perfect but accept done

* test the code thoroughly and request fixes in one shot, but don't conflate new features with bug fixes or no one will be happy

The only points I would modify are:

* Job requests can include bullets, but don't be overly fine-grained.

* You can in fact build relationships with outsourcers via rent-a-coder (MTurk, 99Designs, etc), and you should - this will lead to much better long-term work. A good way to get this started is an unexpected bonus.

* Don't ever screw someone on work. This is just karmically bad. They live in Eastern Europe and are poor. You live in America and are rich. I think the best way is to give someone a piece of work (5-10 hours worth), ask them for a bill, and proceed from there. If the work sucks or is over-billed, you pay and move on. Otherwise, you can give them more work.

Re: The subtleties in outsourcing using RentACoder

#5

Post by fnid2 » Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 9:12 PM UTC

andrewljohnson wrote: post #4

I've had experience using online sites to source jobs, and I think this advice is right on. Here are some summary points, generalized away from rent-a-coder: * don't hire Americans to do commodity work (i.e. PHP CRUD) * be clear but not ominous in your job description, and include visual mocks if at all possible * don't try and be secretive - no one wants your dumb idea anyways * make sure someone has a decent reputa…

don't hire Americans to do commodity work (i.e. PHP CRUD)

This is why Americans are saying they are from overseas to get the jobs. If the price is the same, what does it matter where they are from? Speaking a common primary language and being in the same time zone has value.

When I offshore work, I send an email and have to wait until the next day to get a response. When the worker is in my timezone and I get quick responses, the project success rate improves.

I agree with the other points and have been on both sides of the payer/worker transaction.

Re: The subtleties in outsourcing using RentACoder

#6

Post by Ygor » Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 9:17 PM UTC

andrewljohnson wrote: post #4

I've had experience using online sites to source jobs, and I think this advice is right on. Here are some summary points, generalized away from rent-a-coder: * don't hire Americans to do commodity work (i.e. PHP CRUD) * be clear but not ominous in your job description, and include visual mocks if at all possible * don't try and be secretive - no one wants your dumb idea anyways * make sure someone has a decent reputa…

"They live in Eastern Europe and are poor. You live in America and are rich."

OK. I know it wasn't supposed to be anything like that, but this sentence sounds really bad. I actually got the idea that the coding business of any sort can get you in a pretty good position, financially. One of the reasons is the fact that you are not dependent solely on your local market. And there's also the lower cost of living.

Re: The subtleties in outsourcing using RentACoder

#7

Post by andrewljohnson » Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 9:27 PM UTC

Ygor wrote: post #6

andrewljohnson wrote: post #4

I've had experience using online sites to source jobs, and I think this advice is right on. Here are some summary points, generalized away from rent-a-coder: * don't hire Americans to do commodity work (i.e. PHP CRUD) * be clear but not ominous in your job description, and include visual mocks if at all possible * don't try and be secretive - no one wants your dumb idea anyways * make sure someone has a decent reputa…

"They live in Eastern Europe and are poor. You live in America and are rich." OK. I know it wasn't supposed to be anything like that, but this sentence sounds really bad. I actually got the idea that the coding business of any sort can get you in a pretty good position, financially. One of the reasons is the fact that you are not dependent solely on your local market. And there's also the lower cost of living.

I should say "relatively rich." It's true some people in Eastern Europe are wealthy, but their wealthy is the equivalent of our middle class, so it's a different scale. And also, the people getting their start on rent-a-coder aren't the rich ones.

I wrote this because of something I saw. A friend of mine has a popular iPhone app, and he was pressuring some overseas consultant to lower the final price for some work because he wasn't happy with the result.

I don't think you should be leaning on your workers after the fact - it's up to you to ensure you hire quality worker, and pay them bit-wise so you are both happy.

Re: The subtleties in outsourcing using RentACoder

#8

Post by scorpioxy » Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 9:47 PM UTC

Interesting article. Some inaccuracies: - "Rentacoder does not have skilled developers from western countries. What it has are freelancers from countries like Romania, India, Pakistan and Russia."

Nope. It has developers from all over(I live in Lebanon). Freelance programmers are simply programmers that don't work exclusively for one client. I am guessing you don't mean this in a bad way...

- "The availability of particular skills is very limited."

I started my freelance career on RAC 4 years ago. 6 months into it, i was taking on bigger projects using some of the technologies you mentioned(I'm a python guy but also do C# and Java...). Roughly 8 months into it, i was working with start ups and people were contacting me directly even though my rates are not the cheapest.

I no longer look for gigs on RAC, but its certainly a viable lively hood if you're picky with the projects you take on. The trick is to always be honest and decent, the way you should behave in real life.

I also found it funny that some Indian companies started outsourcing projects to me.

Re: The subtleties in outsourcing using RentACoder

#9

Post by maxklein » Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 9:54 PM UTC

scorpioxy wrote: post #8

Interesting article. Some inaccuracies: - "Rentacoder does not have skilled developers from western countries. What it has are freelancers from countries like Romania, India, Pakistan and Russia." Nope. It has developers from all over(I live in Lebanon). Freelance programmers are simply programmers that don't work exclusively for one client. I am guessing you don't mean this in a bad way... - "The availability of par…

That's what I mean - anyone with any sort of skills in multiple languages very quickly 'graduates' from rentacoder, or picks only very well paying projects, because they can, or focuses on just a few clients that they have prior relationships with.

So a buyer coming in with a new request won't have this person available to him, and should he find a person, he will also try to monopolise the persons time, taking him out of the market.

Re: The subtleties in outsourcing using RentACoder

#10

Post by andreshb » Sat, Mar 13, 2010, 9:54 PM UTC

fnid2 wrote: post #5

andrewljohnson wrote: post #4

I've had experience using online sites to source jobs, and I think this advice is right on. Here are some summary points, generalized away from rent-a-coder: * don't hire Americans to do commodity work (i.e. PHP CRUD) * be clear but not ominous in your job description, and include visual mocks if at all possible * don't try and be secretive - no one wants your dumb idea anyways * make sure someone has a decent reputa…

don't hire Americans to do commodity work (i.e. PHP CRUD) This is why Americans are saying they are from overseas to get the jobs. If the price is the same, what does it matter where they are from? Speaking a common primary language and being in the same time zone has value. When I offshore work, I send an email and have to wait until the next day to get a response. When the worker is in my timezone and I get quick r…

You should try outsourcing to Latin America then, responses in realtime during office hours.