Nanomsg: Stepping Down
garrett.damore.org
Nanomsg: Stepping Down
1–10 of 69 posts
Re: Nanomsg: Stepping Down
#2I disagree with him regarding the usefulness of CoCs -- spelling out the rules of engagement can be powerful -- but I respect that he put his money where his mouth is, so to speak.
Re: Nanomsg: Stepping Down
#3I disagree with him both about the usefulness and harm of CoCs. There are jackasses, and not having preemptively adopted a CoC, they can leverage the lack of clear rules to divide the community.
On the other-hand, once you have rules, there are some people who for some reason or another go out of their way to argue that a behavior violates/does not violate the rules and completely ignore whether the behavior was benign or malignant, which is what one should really care about.
Re: Nanomsg: Stepping Down
#4I think the value of a CoC is merely to signal to people who have experienced abuse or disrespect in communities before (which would describe, I think, most women and people of color who have participated in technical communities for more than a short time) that the community is on their side when sexists or racists show up. That has some value. It doesn't really matter to the majority, and it doesn't actually alter how people behave (generally), nor does it really alter a project leaders ability to excise a toxic person. But, it does say, "We will excise toxic people. We will try to make you feel welcome here, even if you have been made to feel unwelcome elsewhere."
Even if that's all it does (which I think it probably is), it is enough to make it worth doing in most cases. (Which reminds me that I don't have a code of conduct on any of the open source projects or communities I work on, but I'll make it a project for the first quarter of this year.)
Re: Nanomsg: Stepping Down
#5CoCs do layout some rules for engagement but I believe there should be a positivity in the engagement itself. There should not be abuse in any form , either by disrespecting others or pinching others that they are abusing this segment of Coc (which might happen in some cases) . Disrespecting others in any form is not acceptable and hence I think Coc may not be a perfect solution . I can completely see his point .
Re: Nanomsg: Stepping Down
#6I think the value of a CoC is merely to signal to people who have experienced abuse or disrespect in communities before (which would describe, I think, most women and people of color who have participated in technical communities for more than a short time) that the community is on their side when sexists or racists show up. That has some value. It doesn't really matter to the majority, and it doesn't actually alter…
which would describe, I think, most women and people of color who have participated in technical communities for more than a short time
This is an odd assumption to make.
Re: Nanomsg: Stepping Down
#7[deleted]
Re: Nanomsg: Stepping Down
#8I think the value of a CoC is merely to signal to people who have experienced abuse or disrespect in communities before (which would describe, I think, most women and people of color who have participated in technical communities for more than a short time) that the community is on their side when sexists or racists show up. That has some value. It doesn't really matter to the majority, and it doesn't actually alter…
which would describe, I think, most women and people of color who have participated in technical communities for more than a short time This is an odd assumption to make.
Is it?
It may seem that way to a white dude (I'm a white dude, and I suffered from the delusion that tech communities were inclusive for decades), surrounded by white dudes. You're not alone...lots of people think tech is inclusive. I always assumed that our communities were more welcoming than usual, despite the evidence to the contrary in the form of such low historic participation by women and people of color in tech.
But, I've been told it is true from enough women and people of color that I believe it to be true. It's been discussed at great lengths by women and people of color on blogs, on mailing lists, on twitter, etc. I'm not sure what it would take to convince you, but I probably don't have the words to do it, so I'm not gonna try.
For people who acknowledge that our communities do not have a history of being inclusive, it is probably useful to post a CoC in order to signal that we are aware of that history of sexism and racism and acknowledge our willingness to take responsibility for it when it happens in communities we manage, if even in a small way.
Re: Nanomsg: Stepping Down
#9[deleted]
I think the stepping down was to allow his message (this post) to be more visible.
Re: Nanomsg: Stepping Down
#10I disagree with him regarding the usefulness of CoCs -- spelling out the rules of engagement can be powerful -- but I respect that he put his money where his mouth is, so to speak.
I tend to agree with you. I do think that the common sense "don't be a dick" shouldn't need to be explicitly expressed as a rule we all follow. But it should also be common sense not to put your hands near a spinning metal blade, but we have those warnings on lawnmowers. I think where a CoC provides it value is defining the procedures for when the CoC is violated, which it no doubt will be.