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Why Tesla's Autopilot and Google's car are entirely different animals

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Re: Why Tesla's Autopilot and Google's car are entirely different animals

#3
> A full robocar product is only workable if you would need to correct it in decades or even lifetimes of driving.

I had a conversation about this with friends in Germany a few months back.

In most societies, a mistake that causes suffering to another individual is usually 'blamed' on the person causing the suffering. In many cases where causality is obvious, this assignment of blame is fairly straightforward. Example: Bob fell asleep, which caused him to lose control of his car, which hit the bus, which killed a child. Bob is now culpable for the child's family suffering. Bob remains one of many others who share culpability at this point, assuming others are also falling asleep at the wheel. FWIW, 103M people fell asleep at the wheel last year in the US, so Bob will likely have company.

Now put an autonomous piece of software written by company X into Bob's car. Bob engages the autopilot, falls asleep, the autopilot software experiences an error, the software fails to alert Bob, the software loses control of the car, which hits a bus, which kills a child. Who is culpable for the family's suffering now? The software? Company X?

The only way for company X to both a) allow Bob to fall asleep and b) bear the culpability for a family's suffering is to get the software to the point it only makes mistakes in a timeframe that is, at a minimum, several orders of magnitude greater than Bob making the same mistake.

The logic goes that, once a company's software kills a child, it's going to be pretty hard to keep the public from reacting negatively, even though overall suffering will decrease. The only option company X is to require Bob to accept he is "driving" the car and bear the culpability of any suffering the car's software may cause, or alternately, be ready to pay a substantial settlement that offsets suffering.

Re: Why Tesla's Autopilot and Google's car are entirely different animals

#4
Tesla has stated publicly they believe that within three years their cars will be capable of full autonomy, and expect it to take another two years to receive regulatory approval. By fully autonomous they state you will be able to walk outside, have the car approach to meet you, it will open and close the door for you, you can fall asleep, and several hours later wake up at your destination.

Yes, Tesla is taking an incremental approach to releasing the feature sets that are required to have a fully autonomous vehicle, but no, the end product goals for Tesla and Google are not different in kind.

What certainly is different is the manufacturing approach the two companies are taking. Google is seemingly aiming to release a fully autonomous vehicle at version 1.0, meaning every system of the car, such as manufacturing process, sales, customer support, will be at version 1.0 at the same time. In contrast, when Tesla releases its version 1.0 of the fully autonomous driving feature set, they will already have very matured versions of the other components, such as their manufacturing process, battery and drive train technology, sales and marketing, customer support, etc.

Plus, the Google cars look like something one buys for their four year old niece or nephew.

Re: Why Tesla's Autopilot and Google's car are entirely different animals

#5
post #2

"This is not a difference of degree, it is a difference of kind. It is why there is probably not an evolutionary path from the cruise/autopilot systems based on existing ADAS technologies to a real robocar." Really interesting. I did not realize that.

I wouldn't take it as gospel, as it's hard to know for sure, and some companies are betting a lot on there existing that evolutionary path. Their argument might be: why not? Just because there are too many orders of magnitude of improvement? It's not that hard to think of examples where technology advances many orders of magnitude in small compounding steps. The author also mentions "new sensors" as if one can't add and remove new sensors in an evolutionary fashion as they are needed.

Re: Why Tesla's Autopilot and Google's car are entirely different animals

#6
post #3

> A full robocar product is only workable if you would need to correct it in decades or even lifetimes of driving. I had a conversation about this with friends in Germany a few months back. In most societies, a mistake that causes suffering to another individual is usually 'blamed' on the person causing the suffering. In many cases where causality is obvious, this assignment of blame is fairly straightforward. Exampl…

Why can't it be the car manufacturers who are at fault? http://blog.caranddriver.com/volvo-will-take-responsibility-...

Re: Why Tesla's Autopilot and Google's car are entirely different animals

#7
"Tesla’s autopilot isn’t even particularly new."

Guess what... Apple didn't sell the first smartphone either.

Someone takes a small step into car driving automation, tries to create some buzz around it, then I've got to read about how it's not a big deal. The nuances between autonomous and auto-pilot need to be discussed. We need a taxonomy.

I guess writing these sorts of articles is a million times easier than adding any autonomous features to any vehicle.

Forward progress is extremely important. It comes technically and socially. Let's hope everyone demands a car with "that stuff" they have in a Tesla. We'll get a little arms race that'll pay for further development, lives will be save (in total), and we'll asymptotically approach the vision.

Re: Why Tesla's Autopilot and Google's car are entirely different animals

#8
post #2

"This is not a difference of degree, it is a difference of kind. It is why there is probably not an evolutionary path from the cruise/autopilot systems based on existing ADAS technologies to a real robocar." Really interesting. I did not realize that.

The author didn't justify that statement at all. If we have gone from an error once per minute (cruise control) to once per 30 minutes, and think that level of improvement can be repeated twice more, we will be at one error every 450 hours. A third time will put us at one error every 13500 hours.

Is continuous, gradual improvement the best way to fully autonomous cars? I don't know. But the author's argument is simply that we aren't there yet.

Re: Why Tesla's Autopilot and Google's car are entirely different animals

#9
>Doing many thousands times better will not be done by incremental improvement

This assertion isn't obvious to me. In my experience incremental updates are often exponential in their impact (especially if enough resources are put into a problem). Moore's Law is an excellent example of this: at any given time, researchers are working on a fixed number of solutions that will generally make a fixed % impact. This is why we can see a doubling in transistor density without a huge increase in the size of the industry.

In the case of reducing accidents, I could see a similar exponential pattern. The first incremental step maybe took the accident rate from 10% to 1% by eliminating 90% of the possible sources of accidents. In the second step, researchers will again shoot to eliminate 90% of the current causes of accidents, bringing the rate to 0.1%. This could repeat every couple years until the accident rate is sufficiently close to 0.

Re: Why Tesla's Autopilot and Google's car are entirely different animals

#10
post #3

> A full robocar product is only workable if you would need to correct it in decades or even lifetimes of driving. I had a conversation about this with friends in Germany a few months back. In most societies, a mistake that causes suffering to another individual is usually 'blamed' on the person causing the suffering. In many cases where causality is obvious, this assignment of blame is fairly straightforward. Exampl…

> get the software to the point it only makes mistakes in a timeframe that is, at a minimum, several orders of magnitude greater than Bob making the same mistake

That seems to be more or less the case with the Google cars. 300,000 miles, with no accidents caused by the cars. Of course, so far that's limited to more-or-less good weather so far.

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