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Magnifica Humanitas

vatican.va

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Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#991

Post by vouwfietsman »

jfengel wrote: post #26
qsort wrote: post #15

I have only skimmed it, will definitely read carefully as soon as I have time. I will say, as an atheist, that regarding technology the Vatican has some of the best takes of any institution/government I have ever seen.

Much of Western thought traces back to serious work by Church theologians. Even atheists are strongly influenced by the patterns they set down. The Catholic Church, for all its many faults, retains a serious intellectual tradition. (In fact I think atheists should make more effort to learn about the vast diversity of other faiths. It's very narrow to be atheist only about the Abrahamic deity. You end up incorporating…

This is like saying most western thought traces back to people 165cm in height or lower. If everyone is forced to be catholic, all human output, including positive output, is done by catholics.

Guess what, all Chinese EVs are made by communists, maybe there's something to it after all!

Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#992

Post by davidivadavid »

cma wrote: post #45
sethbannon wrote: post #22

The overarching message is that builders should deeply consider the impact of what they're building on civilization. "Technology is never neutral, because it takes on the characteristics of those who devise, finance, regulate and use it." Therefore builders "bear a particular ethical and spiritual responsibility" because "every design choice reflects a vision of humanity." The questions shouldn't just be 'can we buil…

I would also recommend God and Golem, Inc., A Comment on Certain Points Where Cybernetics Impinges on Religion: https://monoskop.org/images/1/1f/Wiener_Norbert_God_and_Gole... Norbert Weiner was an atheist but he talks about three areas religion is the only thing to have really examined that relate to capable AI: omniscience, omnipotence, and worship (gadget worship). It has very prescient stuff on blackbox learning/…

That book cover goes so hard.

Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#993

Post by keybored »

losvedir wrote: post #588
bbor wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) Well, it's you vs. the Pope and I! B) Fine, drop communism altogether -- it's evil and disgusting and bit my finger and should never be tried again. Can we work on a society where the means of production are owned by groups of laborers?

> Can we work on a society where the means of production are owned by groups of laborers? I have good news for you. As someone in my job's ESPP plan and with a 401k, it already is!

401K is like “all animals are equal but some are more equal to others” with regards to laborers owning the means of production.

Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#994

Post by keybored »

adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #371
bbor wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) Well, it's you vs. the Pope and I! B) Fine, drop communism altogether -- it's evil and disgusting and bit my finger and should never be tried again. Can we work on a society where the means of production are owned by groups of laborers?

Re: B my guess is probably not (human nature and all that), but I'm open to ideas! I just think failed experiments where tens of millions died are probably not ones where we just flippantly "try again".

> I just think failed experiments where tens of millions died are probably not ones where we just flippantly "try again".

What do you mean try again? Capitalism is still the way of the world.

Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#995

Post by suburban_strike »

hackyhacky wrote: post #985
portmanteur wrote: post #984

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a stretch. Tolkien was a devout Catholic. The story has a wide variety of allegorical symbolism pointing to a profound Catholic faith. The ring is a metaphor for sin. In famous scene of Boromir’s death, in telling Aragorn he succumbed to temptation by the ring he says, “I have failed.” To which Aragorn, the rightful King, recognizing Boromir’s atonement, replies, “No, brother, you have won a great victory.”…

> Tolkien was a devout Catholic. There are many Catholic authors. Not everything they write is necessarily a "Catholic work." > The ring is a metaphor for sin. You are welcome to your Catholic interpretation of his work, but Tolkien himself famously said that "There is no 'symbolism' or conscious allegory in my story." As a piece of symbolism, the ring doesn't make any sense. Is he saying that elves helped make sin?…

> There is no 'symbolism' or conscious allegory in my story.

Every author says this; they have a financial stake in not alienating outgroups they hope to sell their book to.

Fiction authors (and actors) are professional liars, who sell very convincing lies for a living. Their words should not be trusted so easily.

Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#996

Post by autaut »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #650

I'm curious if there has ever been an instance where people have been able to "tame" a technology to consider a broader, societal good, or if we've always just been at the whims of how any particular tech naturally concentrates or dissipates power. For example, if you look at the boom of the middle classes in the mid 20th century, this appears to me largely a consequence of the fact that industrial technology at the…

Human cloning, bio weapons are two fast examples

Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#997

Post by jaybrendansmith »

Ardren wrote: post #137
jaybrendansmith wrote: post #60

Why downvote this? The Holy See has an opinion on Artificial Intelligence? This is a fascinating document, and everybody should read it, and form their own opinions. The world currently seems to lack moral leadership, and who better to lead the cause of humanity than the Catholic Church?

> who better to lead the cause of humanity than the Catholic Church? Oh no, is my sarcasm meter broken?

I am not defending the Catholic Church! I am defending a single publication...if a stopped clock is accurate twice a day, I celebrate that moment.

Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#999

Post by gymbeaux »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #611
gymbeaux wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enlighten us to these drawbacks. On the surface I am inclined to say the pros would outweigh the cons. Compared to other professions, software engineering seems to struggle the most with H-1B/Green Card abuse and interview processes. Job interviews are absurdly different (easier) for doctors, lawyers, et al. than for software engineers, and that I believe is because of the licensure. I do think licensure adds overhea…

> " Job interviews are absurdly different (easier) for doctors, ... " The job interview for doctors is a 5-7 year residency under tight supervision of an attending physician: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residency_(medicine) . People do flunk or drop out as well, meaning they can never become a physician. There's nothing easier about that.

I’ve been a software engineer for over a decade. At what point is my “residency” over? At what point does the “community” decide I can write software with some level of competency and don’t need to solve fizz buzz over and over again?

Re: Magnifica Humanitas

#1000

Post by trolleski »

lukan wrote: post #428
trolleski wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there are more grey areas in software engineering than in medicine. The difference is the feedback loop of the outcome - if you design a dopamine slot machine you will ruin the generation and that's a long arc.

And that makes it hard. I am open for banning all comercial advertisement - but general society is largely fine with it. So is someone designing new targeting algorithm for ads breaking his potential oath of doing good for society? What grey areas are there for doctors?

Prescribing meds which you could avoid while receiving 'courses' from Key Opinion Leaders in fancy places from the pharma companies. This ranges from antibiotics through psychotropics and up until the pain meds. You can argue some of it is on the safe side, some may be beneficial, etc. Should you accept an invitation to a conference which will increase your skills?
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