Live data from Hacker News

Artemis II Launch Day Updates

nasa.gov

991–1000 of 1001 posts

Re: Artemis II Launch Day Updates

#991

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a significant challenge compared to what they’ve already done. Each of those previous tests could have easily gone to LEO running the engines just a tiny bit longer. OPs point is that they intentionally didn’t. achieving LEO means you need a relight to have a controlled reentry. You don’t want that if you want to avoid countries being mad at you while you iron out those controls

> It’s not a significant challenge compared to what they’ve already done I don't know an aersospace engineer, within SpaceX or without, who would agree. When you increase speeds you increase energies faster. That has an effect on everything from pump performance to re-entry physics. > Each of those previous tests could have easily gone to LEO running the engines just a tiny bit longer Which risks recovery. Given they…

Spacex explicitly on the streams said they shut off the engines early to avoid orbit. I don’t know why you would argue against them

You’re also incorrect that a separate burn is required for orbit. You only need to do that if you want a circular orbit.

Re: Artemis II Launch Day Updates

#992
post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s absolute in the sense that you can determine your acceleration without any external reference. You feel a certain force (like what you feel in an elevator). That’s your acceleration. You don’t accelerate relative to Earth, or relative to anything else. You accelerate relative to when you wouldn’t be accelerating (your inertial rest frame, a state of free fall). If you are in space accelerating and the Earth woul…

I am in a gravitational field. I have no idea what my acceleration is, I just know that I feel 1G (I could be falling in a stronger gravity and only feel 1G, or I could be climbing in a weaker gravity and feel 1G). The only way of determining it is to see if I'm moving relative to the stuff around me. Even then, that's not definite - I could be in an elevator and everything around me is also accelerating. I'm not dis…

If you measure acceleration in a single point, without other information you cannot know whether it is caused by gravitational attraction or by movement that is not rectilinear and uniform.

However, if you measure acceleration in many points, you typically can discriminate the 2 cases, because the spatial variation of the 2 kinds of acceleration fields is normally very different.

If you also move relatively to the local system of reference while measuring acceleration, you have additional distinguishing information from Coriolis forces.

So with enough measurements, gravitational forces and inertial forces can always be separated.

Re: Artemis II Launch Day Updates

#993
post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to general relativity, you (and the ground) are accelerating at 1g, and feel weight because your inertia resists that acceleration. If you jump off a cliff, you'll stop accelerating for a bit, until the ground hits you. Edit to reply: > I am standing on the ground. I feel 1G acceleration. My speed is not changing. How much am I accelerating? You are accelerating at 1g through curved spacetime. Newtonian "sp…

> According to general relativity, you (and the ground) are accelerating at 1g I don't believe this is correct. If I lock two rockets in opposition to each other, they aren't accelerating. They're pushing at each other. And their propellant is accelarating away. But their displacement and orientation are unchanging, which means their velocity is zero which means acceleration isn't happening. Similarly, the normal for…

Declaring some forces as "fictitious" is just a convention and in my opinion it is a useless convention that brings more complexities than simplifications.

In my opinion, a much healthier way of thinking is to not apply any such conventional labels to some forces and to just treat all forces equally, which is simpler, and it also matches the real world, where there is no practical difference between "fictitious" and "non-fictitious" forces.

If you treat all forces equally, then the rule (a.k.a. Newton's 2nd law) is that the resultant of all forces that act in a point is always null. From this, the conservation of energy is an obvious consequence, because whenever that point moves the total mechanical work is null.

The mechanical work of the "fictitious" forces is the variation of the kinetic energy, in the same way as the mechanical work of other forces is equal to the variation of some corresponding kinds of energy. For instance, the mechanical work of an elastic force is the variation of a potential elastic energy.

A "fictitious" force can squish you like a bug exactly like a "non-fictitious" force, and when that happens you would not be saved by the thought that the force is "fictitious".

There is a baseless claim that "fictitious" forces can be distinguished from "non-fictitious" forces because they depend on the system of reference. However the same is true for some of the so-called "non-fictitious" forces, which are functions of velocities and accelerations of bodies, in the same way as the inertial forces. Moreover, what actually varies between systems of reference is how forces are distributed into various kinds of components, not the resultant forces.

If you are pressed on a wall by a so-called "fictitious" inertial force, no change in the system of reference will change the compression force that you feel, but it may change the interpretation of the kind of forces that result in the compression that you feel.

In general relativity the "fictitious" forces do not disappear, but like in classic mechanics where you can define the "fictitious" forces using the variation of the kinetic energy, in relativistic mechanics there is an analogous definition based on the variation of the momentum-energy quadri-vector. In the gravitation theory of Einstein you can compute this inertial 4-force using the gravity force that is derived from the "curvature" of the space (which is in turn determined by the spatial distribution of the momentum-energy 4-vector of matter). The rule of a null resultant 4-force remains true in general relativity, so for a body that moves freely, like a satellite or a body in free fall, the inertial 4-force is equal in magnitude and opposite in sign with the gravitational 4-force.

In some problems of general relativity, you do not need to compute the inertial forces, because e.g. the trajectory of some body might be along a geodesic and that is all that is of interest for you. This is the same like when you use kinematics to determine the possible movement of a mechanism, where you want to know the path on which something moves, but you do not care which forces are exerted on the parts of the mechanism. However, in other problems of general relativity, you may want to know the forces that act upon a body, for instance for computing the required strength of materials, and then you may need to compute inertial forces, exactly like in classic mechanics.

The physics as taught in schools is full of such useless conventions caused by historical accidents. Moreover, besides conventions that just make things more complex than they should be, the standard textbooks contain definite mistakes that have been perpetuated for generations, like wrong definitions for all physical quantities related to rotation motions. In conclusion, trusting the "authority" of the school textbooks is a mistake and people must attempt to verify with their minds all that they are taught, instead of trusting. As a schoolboy I was more skeptical than most, so some of the less competent teachers feared my questions, but I still believed much of what I was being taught and only years later I realized that I was duped.

The fact that the AI models are trained on scientific literature that contains widespread inefficient methods or even mistakes, guarantees that they will provide wrong answers in comparison with really competent humans.

Re: Artemis II Launch Day Updates

#994

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can absolutely be solved by science and engineering, people just need to stop being so fucking afraid to break the rules to do whats right.

What does inequality even mean? Everyone must be identical? The idea of removing inequality is dystopian.

Solving inequality starts with everyone gets the same upbringing. Imagine designing a boarding school where kids get placed at an early age, and get all the support that they need to basically learn how to have control of the environment around them, while also how to interact with other humans to act as a force multiplier in accomplishing bigger things).

You could do this right now with a lot less money then it seems, the problem is that you have to break ethical grounds - for example, you have to have police or support staff that forcibly take kids from their homes if the parents resist this sort of education for their kids. If you don't do this, then you essentially are back to square one.

Re: Artemis II Launch Day Updates

#995

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does inequality even mean? Everyone must be identical? The idea of removing inequality is dystopian.

Stopping the world's resources from being controlled and directed by a tiny fraction of its population isn't the plot of Harrison Bergeron

It would be great if everyone felt and was in a major way in control of their life. Equal before the law and not much law. The people who want to create "equality" by preventing people from accumulating wealth also want to accumulate power in the state. A tiny fraction of people will also be running a socialist state.

Aristocrats are going to aristocrat, as they say.

Re: Artemis II Launch Day Updates

#996

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stopping the world's resources from being controlled and directed by a tiny fraction of its population isn't the plot of Harrison Bergeron

It would be great if everyone felt and was in a major way in control of their life. Equal before the law and not much law. The people who want to create "equality" by preventing people from accumulating wealth also want to accumulate power in the state. A tiny fraction of people will also be running a socialist state. Aristocrats are going to aristocrat, as they say.

What if I say I don't want to accumulate power in either of those places?

Re: Artemis II Launch Day Updates

#997
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go take a look at how much this costs compared to the rest of the federal budget. I think you'll be surprised by how little money NASA gets. Now, the military...

NASA is something like the third biggest space program in the US

I don't know what conclusion you expect me to draw from this information.

Re: Artemis II Launch Day Updates

#998

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be great if everyone felt and was in a major way in control of their life. Equal before the law and not much law. The people who want to create "equality" by preventing people from accumulating wealth also want to accumulate power in the state. A tiny fraction of people will also be running a socialist state. Aristocrats are going to aristocrat, as they say.

What if I say I don't want to accumulate power in either of those places?

Would like to see such a system in action. Have any examples? Most go horribly wrong.

Early United States was pretty good but having a western frontier with "free" land was probably the enabling factor that no longer exists.

Re: Artemis II Launch Day Updates

#999

Earlier quoted context omitted.

80 miles for me! I was a Space Shuttle era kid though. Saw the Challenger disaster during my lunchtime. And then on perpetual replay for the rest of the week on WESH/WCPX/WFTV most likely. Even still, just knowing we were launching all those people into space was awe-inspiring.

TBH, I was probably closer to 80 miles than 60 before we moved. to Daytona... Flagler Beach. You?

Heh, Ormond Beach first, then Flagler - Palm Coast (FPC - go, fight, win!)

Re: Artemis II Launch Day Updates

#1000
post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The heat shield on Artemis I didn’t fail in the sense that were there a crew they would have died

It failed testing. What you’re describing is the exact same thinking that destroyed Challenger. The O-rings are leaking, they’re not supposed to do that at all, but they’re not leaking enough to cause a failure....

Is there any word on how the Artemis II heat shield fared, after the tweak to the reentry profile?
Post reply on HN