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Global warming has accelerated significantly

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Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#991

Post by Toutouxc »

ai-x wrote: post #808
notarobot123 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, those still unconvinced of the human influence on climate change seem to be the sort that would trust the basement randos more than they would reputable scientists

There are various levels of perspectives - Climate Warming is a hoax - Climate Warming is happening, but not Man Made and part of larger cycles - Climate Warming is Man Made, but drastic De-growth strategies cause more harm. - Climate Warming is Man Made, don't need de-growth strategies because Technology will solve energy efficiency, clean energy growth and carbon capture and humans adapt along the way - Climate War…

> humans adapt along the way

These people are about to be really surprised when the bees die.

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#992

Post by f6v »

hackyhacky wrote: post #46
f6v wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, no amount of climate policies in the West is going to offset burning fuel in the developing counties. It’s a global phenomenon and addressing it locally is futile. That, and you don’t have the luxury of green solutions when energy prices were going through the roof.

> addressing it locally is futile. Imagine what could be accomplished if Americans used their global influence to affect global change on climate issues with the same zeal that they pursue manipulative trade deals.

How exactly?

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#993

Post by f6v »

acdha wrote: post #156
f6v wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, no amount of climate policies in the West is going to offset burning fuel in the developing counties. It’s a global phenomenon and addressing it locally is futile. That, and you don’t have the luxury of green solutions when energy prices were going through the roof.

This is not only wrong but you are bending over backwards to maintain the state of ignorance which makes it possible to say that. Most of the carbon in the atmosphere did not come from developing countries, and every reduction buys more time to deal with the problem so, yes, local measures matter: as an example, the U.S. transportation sector is so carbon intensive that getting our average efficiency up will reduce g…

Ok so the wiki graph shows that annual emissions from the rest of the world are growing and US and EU contribute less and less while others contribute more? What’s the argument you’re making here?

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#994

Post by triceratops »

cbeach wrote: post #970
triceratops wrote: post #867

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India and China’s contribution to CO2 emissions dwarfs the rest of the world Such brazen, bald-faced lies. How do you sleep at night? https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-co2-emissions-...

I wasn't talking about historic emissions. I was talking about the current state of affairs, and in particular, the projections over the next few years, as this is what's relevant. I'm not interested in political judgements of "past guilt." I'm interested in the trends that will matter for our childrens' future.

It isn't "past guilt". That CO2 hasn't gone anywhere. It's warming our world today. That's what's affecting our children's future.

If you don't want to "talk about historic emissions" then there's no point talking about China or India's emissions yesterday either. Or the day before that. Hell leave out the last 5 minutes too. Just talk about each instant.

That's clearly idiotic but it's the obvious conclusion if we accept your premise that "historic emissions" don't matter. Today's emissions are tomorrow's "historic emissions" and all historic emissions warm the planet equally.

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#995

Post by Ma8ee »

ai-x wrote: post #808
notarobot123 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, those still unconvinced of the human influence on climate change seem to be the sort that would trust the basement randos more than they would reputable scientists

There are various levels of perspectives - Climate Warming is a hoax - Climate Warming is happening, but not Man Made and part of larger cycles - Climate Warming is Man Made, but drastic De-growth strategies cause more harm. - Climate Warming is Man Made, don't need de-growth strategies because Technology will solve energy efficiency, clean energy growth and carbon capture and humans adapt along the way - Climate War…

I would be in the second to last group if we actually did something when there still was time, and more was done to actually do something now. Yes, there's a lot of energy efficiency measures that could be done, and much more clean energy could be build, and we will be forced to adopt whether we want to or not. (Carbon capture from the atmosphere is a fucking joke though, which should be to everyone when you know that CO2 in the atmosphere is measured in parts per million!)

But we didn't start when we had to, and we are still doing only a fraction of what must be done. So, we are screwing ourselves over majorly. And this is not some fringe hysteria, this is the scientific consensus and has been for a long time. You can almost hear screams of frustration and desperation through the lines if you pick ut the latest IPCC report.

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#996

Post by DrScientist »

4er_transform wrote: post #984
jihadjihad wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are practicing the reverse scientific method. They hold a conclusion in their hand, like, man-made climate change is a hoax , and seek to find any threads of "evidence" that support their foregone conclusion.

Actually I think a lot of climate change denialism has more to do with the “…and so we have to do X to solve it” part of climate change. It’s “climate change activism” that turns people off. Climate change is real. That doesn’t mean we should halt economic growth. Unfortunately this is another area that gets so wrapped up in political power and incentives where: Democrats have factions and groups that want to impleme…

So to paraphrase, some people don't like some of the proposed solutions to climate change to choose to pretend it isn't happening rather than confront the problem?

> it’s not world ending yet but we should get ahead of it,

Sure there are fanatics spouting end-of-the-world-is-nigh stuff but fundamentally I think the problem here is it's unknown - both in terms of the physical changes [1], and perhaps more importantly second order effects due to mass migration. It might become a real problem a lot sooner than you think - we simply don't know - but I think it's certainly wrong to view the effects as a gradual rise - that average hides a lot of local/temporal variation.

[1]in terms of potential for positive feedback loops like methane release, or compensating stabilising effects like cloud cover. [2] For a region to become uninhabitable, you don't need it to be uninhabitable every day of the year - just one or two days a year may be enough - enough to kill people or crops. What's important is the occurrence of extremes during the year, not the average gradual rise.

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#997

Post by aniviacat »

Kiboneu wrote: post #813

Let’s not pretend anymore. The uncomfortable truth is that that people in affluent countries don’t want to change their lifestyle. Affluent countries are less affected by global warming than countries responsible for a fraction of global emissions. All the emissions from manufacturing follow suit.

The EU has less than half the emissions per capita compared to the USA.

The USA has uniquely high emissions (matched only by a couple oil states). This is not solely explained with affluency.

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#998

Post by mcdonje »

f6v wrote: post #993
acdha wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not only wrong but you are bending over backwards to maintain the state of ignorance which makes it possible to say that. Most of the carbon in the atmosphere did not come from developing countries, and every reduction buys more time to deal with the problem so, yes, local measures matter: as an example, the U.S. transportation sector is so carbon intensive that getting our average efficiency up will reduce g…

Ok so the wiki graph shows that annual emissions from the rest of the world are growing and US and EU contribute less and less while others contribute more? What’s the argument you’re making here?

The graph that shows the US as the #3 CO2 generator after China (#1), and all of Asia except China & India (#2)? The one that shows the US generating about half as much as China despite having less than a third of the population? The one that shows the US's contribution to be more than the continents of Africa, South America, and Oceania combined?

Struggling to see how one could look at such a chart and think it's futile for the US to take meaningful action.

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#999

Post by kulahan »

mrs6969 wrote: post #990
kulahan wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally none of those things you wrote are inherently a crime. Granted, maybe that’s the problem, but no - it’s not illegal to get rich, or to use a lot of energy, or to make low quality products.

Making scams in market by creating fake cycles is. Also killing peple with chatbots; what crime are you looking for?

Who, specifically, is killing someone with a chatbot? What is the specific mechanism by which they kill someone?

And “creating fake cycles”? What does that even mean?

Re: Global warming has accelerated significantly

#1000

Post by GreenWatermelon »

throwaway290 wrote: post #989
plaidfuji wrote: post #948

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is the world’s largest fossil fuel importer, so this is a case where their economic incentives align with global environmental trends. I suspect they would be trying to do this regardless of whether global warming were a problem. And now that they’re heavily invested in green tech manufacturing, it’s kind of a self-fulfilling feedback loop - they have an interest in promoting electrification worldwide.

But for now it is the country with 3x coal plants than the next country ( https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/number-of... ), 95% of coal plants under construction in the world (not counting how many coal plants were approved but not yet started), and emits more CO2 per year than US and EU combined https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co-emissions-by-re...

of course, we shouldn't forget that they manifacture the entire world's shit, and have a larger population than US and EU combined. And despite manufacturing all shit, they still emit less per Capita than US and EU.
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