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The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

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Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#991

Post by layla5alive »

freakynit wrote: post #837
godelski wrote: post #816

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also bans jailbreaking/rooting your device, and requires GooglePlay Services/IOS equivalent be installed to "prevent tampering". Regulatory capture at its finest. Such a ruling gives Apple and Google a duopoly over the market. Maybe worse, it encourages the push of personal computers to be more mobile like (the fact that we treat phones as different from computers is already a silly concept). So when are we goin…

"Anyone playing around with things like Reticulum? LoRA? Mesh networks?" I'm curious about the 'day after' scenario: what's the move if the state decides to regulate these into "illegality" because they bypass official channels? We have to remember that the devices aren't the problem... the real hurdle is the bureaucratic gatekeeping of communication. The problem are people, not devices.

"Bypass official channels!?" The overton window has moved so far!!!!

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#992

Post by raxxorraxor »

StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #830
EmbarrassedHelp wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the EU Identity Wallet's documentation, the EU's planned system requires highly invasive age verification to obtain 30 single use, easily trackable tokens that expire after 3 months. It also bans jailbreaking/rooting your device, and requires GooglePlay Services/IOS equivalent be installed to "prevent tampering". You have to blindly trust that the tokens will not be tracked, which is a total no-go for pr…

> It also bans jailbreaking/rooting your device, and requires GooglePlay Services/IOS equivalent be installed to "prevent tampering". The EUDI spec is tech neutral. What the EUDI mandates is a high level of assurance under the eIDAS 2.0 regulation and the use of a secure element or a trusted execution environment to store the key.

my users .ssh folder is secure enough. Take it or leave it.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#993

Post by raxxorraxor »

antitoxic wrote: post #874
budududuroiu wrote: post #858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as you trust the government that gave out the ID I'm a citizen of a European Union member, I trust my government to issue me an ID and use said ID in my interactions with the state, I do not trust my state with anything more than that.

That is exactly the trust I mean. You need to trust that country X gives out valid IDs. If you have sketchy company Y giving out IDs to everyone, you probably would not trust any attributes derived from that ID. If you trust that a country gives out valid IDs, you can trust the information derived from that ID. You do not really need to trust your government any more than that for this system to work.

What if the government also stores connection info of everyone?

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#994

Post by antitoxic »

erremerre wrote: post #935
antitoxic wrote: post #856

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is open-source and portable to any platform you want. We currently support iOS and Android through Play store and F-droid, but that is just because most of the market is there at the moment.

What about the "App and device verification based on Google Play Integrity API and Apple App Attestation" that was in the readme? Was this discarded? Is it not necessary anymore? Can someone without writing their own implementation use the app without using any of those two?

I think we are talking about different things here. I think you are referencing the eu-digital-identity-wallet, which is a reference implementation. Our identity wallet precedes this wallet and never had this requirement.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#995

Post by alt227 »

TZubiri wrote: post #971
alt227 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was exposed to pornography online at age 9....allowing kids first sexual experiences to be pornography I was initially exposed to pornography at 8 years old, by finding a disgarded magazine in a hedge. However this was pretty soft. I was exposed to serious pornography at 10 years by finding a hidden VHS tape in the back of a drawer at a friends house and getting curious. This was hardcore German stuff with explic…

I think there's a non-trivial legal and ethical difference between distributing material (whether as a sale or not, or for profit or not) and a child finding material that was distributed to an adult. The equivalence with alcohol would be finding an alcohol bottle in your parent's cabinet. It's not the same as buying alcohol while you are 10, and it's in no way an excuse to allow the sale of alcohol to minors.

No-one is selling pronography to minors. I guess your analogy lends itself more to minors walking into stores and seeing pornography magazines and DVDs for sale, which happens everywhere all the time.

The point is it can be accidentally stumbled upon in many different situations, so why focus so heavily on a draconian online law which doesnt actually stop children from seeing pornography?

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#996

Post by downrightmike »

agentultra wrote: post #929
downrightmike wrote: post #799

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't about the kids, they are just the smoke and mirrors.

I think this is true, it’s more about enabling a surveillance apparatus with plausible deniability built in. The funny thing is, just like how politicians have been led to believe that AI data centres create jobs, politicians think this system can be managed responsibly so that only they can get access to its data [0]. [0] https://cybernews.com/security/global-data-leak-exposes-bill...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#997

Post by jackvalentine »

lII1lIlI11ll wrote: post #928
jackvalentine wrote: post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your proposed recourse for me as a parent if your kid shows my kid gore videos?

What is your recourse if his kid gives yours a bottle of whisky?

Young kids carrying whisky on the school grounds isn’t really a threat where I live.

But to answer your question directly - kids having whisky and I can go after whoever sold/provided it to them using existing legal means if I think it serious enough.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#998

Post by alisadev »

dcow wrote: post #821
horsawlarway wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how this is any better. It's my job as a parent (and I have several kids...) to monitor the things they consume and talk with them about it. I don't want some blanket ban on content unless it's "age appropriate", because I don't approve that content being banned. (honestly - the idea of "age appropriate" is insulting in the first place) Fuck man, I can even legally give my kids alcohol - I don't se…

Your kids can’t buy alcohol though. If you want to unlock your phone and let your kids read smut then more power to you. Age gates do not and never will stop that. But I sure as hell don’t want companies selling porn to 5 yr olds.

Well they can just ban porn altogether, for everyone, and enforce it with jail time for everyone involved (from its creation to distribution); then most of the problems will be solved.

* it's a bit sarcastic, but tbh it isn't such a bad idea, considering the negative impact that porn has.

Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection

#999

Post by alisadev »

jatari wrote: post #634
horsawlarway wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how this is any better. It's my job as a parent (and I have several kids...) to monitor the things they consume and talk with them about it. I don't want some blanket ban on content unless it's "age appropriate", because I don't approve that content being banned. (honestly - the idea of "age appropriate" is insulting in the first place) Fuck man, I can even legally give my kids alcohol - I don't se…

The law is there to protect children in the case they have absent/neglectful parents. Unfortunately not every child has a parent as aware as you.

Then why won't they focus on fixing the root of the problem, with educating and healing (psychologically) people before they have children so that there won't be neglected children to protect in the first place?

Having children should be a privilege, not a human right. Especially when the majority of children end up being abused either way (either physically, emotionally or both). It is far more common to have abusive or neglectful parents than it seems.

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