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Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

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Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#991

Post by a4isms »

mlyle wrote: post #360
a4isms wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To continue a conversation from another thread on another post, uncertainty, complexity, ambiguity, and out-of-band context required are all costs that just happen to act as moats for entrenched incumbents. And no surprise, such incumbents often have so much influence over politics that they literally write the laws that regulate them. The folksy aphorism goes, The more wild cards and crazy rules, the greater the exp…

Yes-- I think most of us are familiar with regulatory capture. But the solution to regulatory capture isn't "no regulation."

Wild cards and crazy rules versus no regulation is a false dichotomy.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#992

Post by pornel »

l5870uoo9y wrote: post #319
energy123 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've stopped thinking of regulations as a single dial, where more regulations is bad or less regulations is bad. It entirely depends on what is being regulated and how. Some areas need more regulations, some areas need less. Some areas need altered regulation. Some areas have just the right regulations. Most regulations can be improved, some more than others.

I disagree with this otherwise seemingly reasonable position. Draghi's latest report pointed out that overregulation is a major problem in the EU and costs EU companies the equivalent of a 50% tariff (if I remember correctly). Of course, Draghi's report has led to nothing more than a few headlines.

I'm happy to burden EU companies with responsibilities like securing storage of my private data, having processes to update and delete my data, having to consider whether data collection can be minimized, and getting my consent if they want to repurpose or sell the data they've collected.

It would be much cheaper and pro-business to let them collect everything and secure nothing.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#993

Post by port11 »

Retric wrote: post #227
port11 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would require politicians and policy-makers that think long-term, know what they're regulating, and maybe have been in the field. I don't think Law school Eurocrats can do any of the 3 items above, at least not well enough. This is either a way to chop at the (poorly designed and already watered down) GDPR or true, unapologetic lack of care. I'm hoping to go for my 3rd startup and ‘compliance costs’ have never b…

Politicians don’t need to know the details, they need to be advised by competent people with the best interests of the public in mind. Which may sound straightforward while being really difficult to get right.

Well… I had friends working in research or drafting advice that ends up in the hands of policy-makers. And while these people are motivated and want to do their job well, I disagree that they're providing the best advice.

Politicians don't need to know the details but should know understand the wider, larger brushstrokes of the painting. That would be worlds easier if tech people listened to Bruce Schneier and started getting into policy.

Someone who's had a career in tech can probably tell good from bad advice when it comes to the best interests of the public in mind. And perhaps they'd be less corruptible by the best interests of the wealthy.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#994

Post by zenmac »

ta20240528 wrote: post #738
zenmac wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>latest report pointed out that overregulation is a major problem in the EU and costs EU companies the equivalent of a 50% tariff (if I remember correctly). Of course. Normally I'm against overrgulation, but when it comes to privacy more fine for big corp is need if ANY violation is found. Rather NOT have AI than compromise on privacy.

"I'm against overrgulation, but when it comes to privacy" Our ancestors survived perfectly fine with telephone directories dropped at every house for free which contained everyone's name and address. Are you sure someone knowing your address is that bad?

>Our ancestors survived perfectly fine with telephone directories dropped at every house for free which contained everyone's name and address.

Yeah but our ancestors also doesn't amount of processing power that the current big corps have. Constrain what big corp can collect personal data is beneficial for average users in current day and age.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#995

Post by OkayPhysicist »

necovek wrote: post #581
OkayPhysicist wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, this is a great example of the lack of professionalism in the software development field. No individual software developer is responsible for violating the GDPR's prohibitions on cookie banners in a legal sense, but we could be. Real engineers have that leverage: A PE who thinks a bridge's design amounts to professional malpractice gets to refuse to approve that design, and anybody who the employer could find to…

But that's a great example of why we might not need to turn into professionally licensed experts: the risk of messing the implementation of GDPR up is nowhere near messing a bridge or even a single family home up. Now sure, with software controlling everything today (even the tools an engineer would use to design and build a bridge: imagine a bug in software setting the cement ratio in concrete being used), there are…

Sure, we programmers aren't likely to kill anyone with malpractice (in most software development disciplines, anyway). But we have a much, much broader impact. An exceptionally bad bridge collapse kills maybe a couple hundred people. Incompetent or malicious coding practices on a site negatively effect millions, with some sites getting up to the billions.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#996

Post by necovek »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #995
necovek wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's a great example of why we might not need to turn into professionally licensed experts: the risk of messing the implementation of GDPR up is nowhere near messing a bridge or even a single family home up. Now sure, with software controlling everything today (even the tools an engineer would use to design and build a bridge: imagine a bug in software setting the cement ratio in concrete being used), there are…

Sure, we programmers aren't likely to kill anyone with malpractice (in most software development disciplines, anyway). But we have a much, much broader impact. An exceptionally bad bridge collapse kills maybe a couple hundred people. Incompetent or malicious coding practices on a site negatively effect millions, with some sites getting up to the billions .

No disagreement there, but opportunity costs are present and unregulated everywhere: eg. a bad traffic light design (timings) might increase congestion and greenhouse gasses emissions 10×, but nobody is losing their traffic engineering license for that.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#998

Post by huijzer »

hearsathought wrote: post #987
throwaway2037 wrote: post #954

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars

Aren't most of the foreign cars in europe american? Or maybe japanese?

Germany used to sell their cars worldwide but is having a hard time competing against Chinese electric cars

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#999

Post by pdimitar »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #477
pdimitar wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stand corrected. :D You are quite right! They have never stopped. And I am ashamed on their behalf. We have amazing tech talent in the EU but we are beholden to old and ultra-risk-averse rich aristocracy. What a damned shame.

> We have amazing tech talent in the EU but we are beholden to old and ultra-risk-averse rich aristocracy. That's an odd way to say EU regulations....

No, it's not that. No regulations prevents them from investing in our own IT infrastructure. It is harder than in the US, sure, but very far from unprofitable. In fact it's a glaring hole in the EU now due to the current geopolitics... and still nobody is even attempting to fill the void.

Correction: Russians and Chinese likely are already trying, via proxies. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#1000

Post by pas »

array_key_first wrote: post #504
clickety_clack wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So “smart rules” only means “more rules”? Smart rule making includes reducing the regulatory burden when it overreaches. The weight of regulation around tech in the EU is creating an environment such that the only companies that can operate in a space are the ones who can afford massive compliance overhead. That leaves you with the very same big tech firms that people are writing these rules to protect themselves fro…

Right, but it's obviously not overreaching, because user's data is taken: 1. Without their consent, 2. Without their knowledge and, 3. Cannot be taken back or denied in a simple way. There is a problem space here, in which there is zero solution. There is absolutely nothing, _NOTHING_, consumers can do if they want to protect their privacy. And before I hear 'well just don't use...' no - uh uh, that doesn't count. Th…

cheaters or not there's no EU tech scene. of course it's hard to compete with a very successful capital-breeding flywheel that's ongoing for about a hundred years.
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